The Meat Mafia Podcast

Part 1
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[00:00:00] Should we hit it? Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

If these other conditions that people are told are incurable can resolve, if I somehow accidentally reversed three cavities in my mouth and they tell me that cavities can't reverse, if a broken bone can heal, why can't every part of the body heal? And to me, the answer became clear, eventually it can. But then you have to ask the question, what does it need in order to do that?

Katie, welcome to the meat mafia podcast. Pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you guys. Yeah, we're honored to have you on the show. We, um, I think we said this when we appeared on your podcast that we got to meet at Sun Life Organics off of South Congress in Austin, where we've, we've actually met a lot of our incredible podcast guests.

And, um, as soon as we showed up, Khalil, who's the owner of Sun Life said, you have to meet Katie. She runs Wellness Mama. And we had [00:01:00] actually already been following your Instagram account and didn't realize you were at the shop. So we were, we were able to connect and I felt like we hit, hit it off immediately, but you have such an amazing story, you know, being a mom of six kids, building out this amazing brand in the health and wellness space since 2006, I think there's a lot of really cool things that we can dig into that will be relatable to our audience.

But, um, just, just for your background, Katie, I know you had a pretty incredible healing journey. If you would be willing to share that with our audience, that would be a great place to kick things off. Absolutely. And I'll share sort of high level so I don't take too much time and then you can get specific on anything you want.

Um, the short version is I actually went to school originally for journalism and was very type A, thought of potentially a career in law or politics, extremely driven. In hindsight, I can look back and say, if you want to create autoimmune disease in the body, you can just follow exactly what I did, which is to be stressed out all the time, not get good sleep and eat processed food while doing 28 hours of course load per semester and then get pregnant.

That's it. So I don't [00:02:00] recommend that path, but that was mine at that point. And thanks to my journalism background, I started turning to the research. So I simultaneously had this brand new baby and was having all these weird health symptoms. And I read in time magazine that year that for the first time in two centuries.

The current generation of American children would have a shorter life expectancy than their parents. And just looking at my tiny newborn, I decided that wasn't good enough for him and it wasn't good enough for anybody's child. And started to ask the questions of why are we seeing that? Why are we seeing this shift happen that has been going the other direction for most of recorded human history?

What are the variables that are coming into play there? And it was a long journey for me to unravel that, that also lined up with my own personal health journey. And like many of your listeners, perhaps have had a similar experience of going to many doctors and being told either a, that everything was normal and that those were all just things that come along with being a woman or having a baby.

Um, and knowing that my experience of life at that point of falling asleep in front of the door so that my kids wouldn't run it in traffic [00:03:00] was not normal. Even if it was common, it wasn't normal. And so I turned to the research side to start trying to figure out the reasons things were happening. And as I did, I realized there were many other people in similar situations, or whose kids were in similar situations, looking for answers as well.

And 15 years ago there wasn't the amazing resources available that there are now, and I'm so happy to see so many voices contributing to this conversation. But, you know, we hear the statistic that over 80 percent of us, some sources say over 90 percent of us have some marker of metabolic dysfunction or metabolic syndrome.

And the great news within that, in my mind, is that that means those variables are within our control to affect change. And so something that was a very slow lesson for me that I say often is, We are each our own primary health care provider and our own healer, and nobody's coming to save us. We can work with amazing practitioners, and often we need to, but the responsibility is still within our own hands, and we are in our own driver's seat when it comes to that.

And so that, for me, was an eight year [00:04:00] journey of finally getting a diagnosis of Hashimoto's, which I no longer have. Um, learning the reasons I potentially had that, but more importantly, learning the variables within my own control that I could change that would help shift that because I very fundamentally believe that our bodies are innately perfectly wired for healing, that our body always wants to move to a state of optimal health.

I know you have similarities in your story as well related to that. And that if we have symptoms. They're actually a message and they're a gift because it's our body speaking very clearly to us about something it needs and doesn't have or has and doesn't need that is giving us a message of how we can heal.

And so for me, that was a lot of end of one experimentation and finally figuring out those variables that worked for me. And I know often, you know, things get dismissed when it's end of one, but at the end of the day for each of us, that is the only and most valid scientific experiment that matters.

Because if we figure out our variables that work for us, that's effective change in our own life. Whether or not it was studied in a double blind placebo controlled trial. And so that's been [00:05:00] my message through Wellness Mama as people have gone along with me on that healing journey. And I've seen so many others take that ownership for their own health and start to figure out their own equation and their own variables as well.

Yeah, Katie, I love your story and it, it really does coincide really well with what we talk about on our show and in Brett's healing journey too, which is that there are opportunities to, and we just live in the era of being able to find resources online, like your blog and. Learn and hear other people's stories and then apply it to yourself.

And, uh, I just think it's amazing how far we've come in a short period of time. It seems like the Internet has really done a great job of of decentralizing and, uh, democratizing some of this information so that. You know, it can get out into the people's hands and you don't really need, um, and not saying you don't need a doctor, but you can actually take power back and start to own your own health journey.

So, uh, I think, I think it's really awesome. The time we're living in where there are these resources available to us. [00:06:00] Um, but I imagine in 2006, when you were just getting started writing, there probably weren't a whole lot of other blogs out there. What was that? What was the landscape like back then?

You're right. It was entirely different. And not only was there not as much information available online to find easily, but there also just weren't the availability of resources. If you were trying to find products that would help your health. Like I remember buying grass fed beef out of the back of a truck that was from an Amish farmer and this guy had driven it and it was probably illegal in the state that I lived in, but you couldn't find these things in stores at the time.

And thankfully now you can. And thankfully now there's amazing regenerative. Farmers and ranchers that can ship to you even, but that didn't exist when I was first figuring this out. And I think it's an interesting paradox too, because they used to say pre all the internet information available, that it was a lack of information was the reason that we weren't seeing resolution of these things.

And we can now probably definitively say it wasn't just a lack of information because we have now the entirety of human knowledge available at our fingertips and our phones, [00:07:00] there's an action component required, but thankfully we do have that information variable figured out. And so because there wasn't all these amazing resources on the internet, I was in PubMed a lot and reading studies a lot.

And as I started building MonoSoma, also reaching out to experts. To get their opinion and advice, and I especially loved getting to talk to conflicting opinions, experts with conflicting opinions, because I think there's tremendous value in being able to hold conflicting viewpoints without having cognitive dissonance, and to learn from each approach, rather than getting so dogmatic that we dismiss things that could be helpful, because they don't Align with our own already existing cognitive bias.

And so there was a lot of that and a lot of personal trial and error. And I certainly discovered many ways that it didn't work before I discovered the things that did help. Um, but I think now we have such a tremendous gift in the form of all this information. And I tell people often, You know, every expert has figured out what works for them and there's something to learn from each of them, but that doesn't mean their exact blueprint [00:08:00] approach is going to work exactly the same for you and your body and what's going on with you specifically, but we can learn from each of them.

And if we can approach that with childlike curiosity and an open mind and then do the experimentation and apply that to our own situation, I feel like that's where the results actually happen. That's so well said. It reminds me of what you had mentioned earlier, Katie, about this concept of being your primary care physician, which I think is the opposite of how most patients feel in Western medicine, where it's like, Dr.

Blanket tells you to take these prescriptions, these medications, do this protocol, you don't deviate it, you follow them to a T, whereas what you're saying is like, there should be this ownership over your own health because no one knows your body better than you. And again, your body is this amazing healing, regenerative piece of machinery when you give it the right inputs, um, For years.

It's like it does have the capacity to heal, which is something I think both you and myself experienced with autoimmune disease. I'm just curious. So like in the early 2000s, when you were going through this healing process, were there any other case studies or examples of other patients that had Hashimoto's that [00:09:00] healed?

And the reason why I'm saying that is for me, when I went carnivore in 2019, there were some case studies of people with Crohn's and colitis that had reversed these things through paleo through carnivore, et cetera. And that kind of gave me the proof of concept of I too could heal. But I don't like, as you said, I don't know what it looked like in the early 2000s.

So was there anyone else that you could reference or draw inspiration from, or was it just kind of on your own believing in this process? In the beginning, it was very much sort of on my own. I didn't find any case studies early on. Thankfully, now there are many, many, um, but even the more naturally minded doctors that I was able to work with early on had gave me a lot of hope for things that would help and that would help resolve symptoms or manage it or that could feel better.

But the narrative at that point was still very much that this is not something you can ever heal. It's something that can go into remission. But that you're going to be on medication for the rest of your life. And there wasn't really a context for it being able to actually completely resolve, which for me, it has, I'm no longer on medication.

My [00:10:00] labs are in range and I feel awesome, but that I didn't have an example directly to follow about that. But I found examples in other places because I found examples like the ones you mentioned of people who had resolved other health conditions. And so I started to question. If these other conditions that people are told are incurable can resolve.

If I somehow accidentally reversed three cavities in my mouth and they tell me that cavities can't reverse. If a broken bone can heal, why can't every part of the body heal? And to me the answer became clear eventually, it can. But then you have to ask the question, What does it need in order to do that?

Because like I said in the beginning, I very firmly believe that we are designed to move toward a state of optimal health. That's where our body wants to be. And I think the other thing is the language around, especially autoimmune disease, I feel like is really poor. Especially in the medical model where you're told your body is attacking itself.

And I think there's something really harmful in your mindset if you internalize and identify with the idea that your body is attacking [00:11:00] itself. Because the body is always on your side. And if you're having symptoms or a Like a healing response of some sort, that's actually your body trying to do the best it can to keep you alive and functioning with the best tools that it has available.

And so if it's not at the point you want it to be, ask the question, why is that? And then try to figure out how to give your body what it needs to move toward that state. Um, but especially if anybody listening has autoimmune disease, I think that's a very small and simple, but underestimated thing is just to shift your mindset away from my body's attacking itself to my body is healing.

And this symptom that I'm having is a message about my body trying to heal. So how can I get on my body's team and help it? It's so funny you bring that up. I wanted to dive into the psychology of healing because there's really, there's really two types of people out there, people who get in these situations and believe that there is some intrinsic way to reframe the situation that they're in and, and find a way to heal.

And then there's people who really never allow their mind to get to the place [00:12:00] where. They are open to the idea that like they can, their body isn't attacking them, that they can have their body get into a position where it's nourished and able to overcome whatever autoimmunity or any disease that it's encountering.

So I'm curious, do you have any practical advice in terms of how to break down these psychological barriers that. People run into when it comes to healing. Yeah, that's such a great question. And I think there's definitely some mindset components and then also some cognitive things that understanding them on a deeper level can help your body sort of catch up when you understand the ways to support the body correctly.

And as an extreme example of this, I would point to cases like we've all heard of those situations where someone is diagnosed with cancer. They're told it's terminal. They decide to, um, like adjust their mindset to just be present, love every moment that they have left, experience life to the fullest, spend time with their loved ones, and they spontaneously resolve, and that the doctors call that a miracle, or they say it's an [00:13:00] unexplained spontaneous remission, and the person is fine.

There's also cases where someone is told they have terminal cancer, they're told they have a certain amount of time to live, and then they die on schedule, and an autopsy reveals they never actually had cancer. It was a misdiagnosis, but because they were told they were going to die, they did. Wow. And so I think we haven't studied it deeply, but the mindset component here is huge.

And I think cognitively understanding that anytime we have something going on in our body and we've been given a word by a practitioner that especially wants to end an itis, that means there's an inflammation happening somewhere in the body. And often in the medical world, that means there's an unexplained inflammation that they don't understand.

So they're going to just. give it an itis ending and tell you that you have dermatitis or Hashimoto's thyroiditis or whatever the rheumatoid arthritis, whatever the conditions are, that's indicating there's inflammation somewhere in the body. So the question then becomes why and how do we reduce inflammation in the body?

Unfortunately, our modern lifestyles don't easily and naturally set us up for that. For conditions of reducing inflammation, [00:14:00] but they're great for creating inflammation. When we're exposed to artificial light late at night, when we don't get morning sunlight and line up our circadian rhythm with the sun, which we were designed to do when we're eating process foods that are so high in glucose that we would never have encountered them in nature.

And certainly not all year round, certainly not in the winter when many populations would be eating less or eating more just protein and healthy fats, because that's what they could store for the So we're, we're kind of living completely out of alignment. With the way nature intended us and then wondering why our bodies aren't like aren't Performing in the way we want them to.

And so I think it's like, when you start to understand that and can connect those dots, you start to see, okay, maybe there are some simple steps that even if I have Hashimoto's and I'm so tired, I can barely get out of bed. Maybe I can just get out of bed and walk to the patio and sit in the morning sunlight, which by the way, if you're going to buy expensive red light devices.

Morning sunlight has all the spectrums of that in it, and it's free. So even if you have no budget for this, you can go outside. You can [00:15:00] turn off the artificial light in your house after sunset, and let your melatonin start rebuilding. Melatonin is a very powerful antioxidant. It's helpful in healing and repair.

It helps our cerebral spinal fluid flush and reduce inflammation while we're sleeping. And we create it in our bodies. So if we can find little ways to start to turn what's currently, for a lot of people, a negative feedback loop, Into a positive one that also gives you more capacity and bandwidth to do the other things that will help you to get better along the way.

Because I've been there, I know what it feels like to be so depleted and so inflamed that anything that requires effort seems almost undoable. And that's because often we're in that negative feedback loop where we have inflammation, we're not getting the nutrients we need in our diet, we're getting too much sugar and our glucose is too high, our body's in an inflamed state.

So what are the baby steps we can do? To start reducing that just a little bit to give us a little bit more capacity to make the choices throughout the rest of the day that help us to shift that into a positive feedback loop. And because the body is so innately [00:16:00] capable of moving toward an optimal state of being.

Once we start those little shifts that it almost becomes to use the business term, a flywheel where it takes more effort in the beginning, but over time, the momentum gained helps the process continue and even speed up with less effort. It would be fascinating to take a cohort of people with autoimmune diseases, Hashimoto's, Crohn's, colitis, et cetera, and just.

Literally put them on a protocol of like daily sunlight exposure first thing in the morning, eight hours of sleep, real foods, diet, some type of stress management, meditation practice, and have them do that for six months. I would be fascinated to see the results from day one to, uh, to the last day of that cohort.

That would be. And I think thankfully we're seeing a lot of people taking ownership for their own health and doing that sort of through tracking what their aura rings through, just keeping an eye on what they're eating and through noticing those patterns in their own life. But I find it so funny. That science is now confirming what I feel like Other cultures have known for thousands of years, and we've got people, thankfully, like Huberman, talking on his [00:17:00] podcast, a whole podcast, just about the neurological benefits of morning sunlight, and the funny part of that is, this is something humans have always done throughout history until recently, but I love that science is also confirming what nature already knows.

Um, okay. I was going to ask you, was there anything that you were doing specifically kind of outside of just the fundamentals and basic principles of health that really helped you turn the corner with your Hashimoto's? Um, I know, like, from what I know of Hashimoto's, it's a very debilitating autoimmune disease where your energy is really low.

It's hard to, you know, move, get out of, you mentioned, get out, even just get out of bed. Um, so I can imagine like actually feeling like you can get over the hump and heal from something like that is really challenging. Was there anything like any one or two things that you did that really moved the needle the most?

Yeah, that's a great question too. And I think it was a combination. Like I said, I think often [00:18:00] the simple things are overlooked because of their simplicity, but over time they can have the most profound impact. So anybody who is in that state where things are really hard, I always try to remind them there's benefits in compounding.

And while one day of getting your light patterns right is probably not going to solve it overnight. Three months of doing that just one baby step at a time can make a really tremendous difference. So I think the things for me were the simple ones of spending as much time outside as possible.

Especially because there's some really fascinating interactions like we are beings made to interact with the Sun. And I think a lot of disservice has been done in telling people to avoid the Sun entirely for the last several decades. But there's a whole cascade of things that happen way beyond just vitamin D.

When we get the right light exposure, everything from certain cells in our eyes being signaled that start the clock for our circadian rhythm to all the different spectrum of light that we cannot see influencing our mitochondrial function, which is, I think, another key. If you need one thing to [00:19:00] focus on, focus on what can I do that will improve my mitochondrial function because that's the energy powerhouse of the cell and often in a state of mitochondrial function.

Chronic disease. We have very depleted mitochondrial function. So of course we don't feel energetic. And of course it's hard to do things because the actual energy currencies of our bodies are not operating effectively. Light can help that a lot of the things you guys talk about. So I moved to a very, um, AIP type for me for a while, very similar to carnivore before that was a term diet just to reduce inflammation.

Cause I knew I was reacting to a lot of foods at that time. And so I, I just sort of took a. Like blanket approach and removed everything that could be mildly inflammatory. So I was eating a lot of the foods you guys talk about like bone broth and regeneratively raised meats and healthy fats, which I think is an also a huge one because if you don't have enough healthy fats, you.

And enough cholesterol, which also got a bad rap. You're not making hormones effectively, or if your stress levels high, all of that's being used to make stress hormones, [00:20:00] not metabolic hormones or the hormones you need for normal fertility and for optimal function. Um, but to answer a little bit more concisely, I would say.

More light exposure and getting light outside. And as I got energy, I started walking outside. I didn't do any intense exercise for a year when my body was in that healing state, but I walked a lot and I spent a lot of time in the sunshine with as much, as much skin exposed as possible to let my cells start to recharge.

And then I shipped it from how I thought about diet because another side effect of Hashimoto's is it makes it very difficult to gain weight. And so I had had six pregnancies. You tend to gain weight with pregnancy anyway. And I had all this excess weight that I wasn't able to release. And I realized because of that, I had gotten in a mindset of a really negative relationship with food and also how I thought about food in my body.

So I had kind of gotten into this deprivation, punishment, food is bad mentality. And as I started researching it, I realized, you know, we hear a lot about Americans and of course the obesity epidemic. And we're [00:21:00] certainly not, underfed. We're getting plenty of calories in most cases, but our diet is largely devoid of an actual amount of micronutrients.

And I know you guys talk about this, the protein we need for ourselves to actually exist and function. And when we're in that state, the body and its wisdom craves more food because it's desperately trying to reach those basic micronutrient levels that it needs and the basic protein levels that it needs to function properly.

So when I shifted instead of eating. trying to fit in any kind of macros or calories, but focused on the nutrient density of my food. That changed so much as far as my energy levels as well. And so I really just started evaluating of the food I'm going to eat today. How can I get the maximum amount of nutrients into my body?

Sort of like calories be damped. How do I get the maximum amount of nutrients into my body? And those were the first two baby steps that really started shifting things. I think beyond there, it does get into a lot more of the personalization if there's specific nutrients your body needs that might not be blanket.

So, for instance, for me, I was [00:22:00] intolerant to eggs for a long time. When I was in the heat of the Hashimoto's and so I hadn't eaten eggs in years and I was super choline deficient. So figuring that out, getting enough choline from supplements turned my brain on in a way I hadn't felt in years. That was a very specific case though, that doesn't mean everybody who takes choline is going to feel amazing the next day.

But there might be pieces like that that you have to figure out individually, but I would say start with light sleep and nutrient density. And then from there build in, The gentle right kind of movements. You need any specific nutrient support you need. If there's therapies you need that can help speed that process of getting the bad stuff out or getting good stuff into your body, do that then, but get the foundational first, because that's going to make everything else you do work so much better.

Yeah. There's so much good information that you just said. I remember like kind of walking around a grocery store one day and just thinking how crazy it is that so many of these processed foods are so calorically dense and there's just zero micronutrients in them at all. And that's why I think your approach is so amazing where I, you know, it's very [00:23:00] tough for people to figure out what the right diet is because you have, you know, these carnivore extremists, animal based people, paleo, vegetarian, pescatarian, et cetera.

There's all these labels around it, but I love the concept of just eating for nutrient density because if you're eating for nutrient density, that's implying that if a food is really high in micronutrients, it's going to be a real food. So it's very difficult to overeat those things anyway. So you don't have to worry about really like tracking your calories or macros because it's implied that you're not going to overeat those things.

And you're just eating these super nutrient dense foods that will give you that energy and vitality and the ability to heal ultimately, right? That's such a good point. Yeah, like good luck sitting down to watch a movie and instead of a bowl of popcorn, you have a bowl of beef and try like good luck trying to overeat that.

Cause I know when I started doing this, I was like, okay, I need to hit this basic minimum amount of protein. And that was the toughest part of it for me. It was like actually eating enough after years of under eating. eating enough to correctly nourish my body. And the cool part is, and I know you guys talk about this, this is so much simpler than it [00:24:00] used to be.

Like I wish Noble had existed when I started this because I was grinding up actual raw liver into my smoothies trying to get nutrients in. But now we have things literally that make eating this way as easy as eating that processed crap in the middle of the store. So this can be an easy switch and I also find when you focus on the nutrient density, you don't need to eat as often or as much because you're actually getting nourished.

And so I find this is actually easier for me. Like when I have a, an eight hour in a row podcast day, I can just eat a really nourishing breakfast. That's super high in protein and good fats. And I am fine until four o'clock. Wow. Even though I don't have time to eat that whole time. Um, I feel like it's, it can actually be the most convenient food when you just make that mental switch to thinking that way.

It's like, I can easily just eat some oysters and a little bit of steak and some healthy fats for breakfast and I'm good to go for hours. Whereas, it used to cost more to eat pork. whether it be like the oatmeal with artificial things added or whatever it was, and it took the same amount of time. So it can be an easy switch when you make that mindset shift.

[00:25:00] You mentioned oysters and steak. Are there any other bang for your buck nutrient dense foods that you rely on? Yeah. So for me still like protein is the focus because I'm now in a phase of dieting. After healing and feeling great, I'm trying to build muscle pretty aggressively. So I do focus pretty protein heavy, but I think for women, especially, um, if we only focus on the protein, we can sometimes not get enough of the healthy fats we need to make things like progesterone and estrogen, which turns out are really important for not just how you feel, but whether like your hair grows or you have your monthly cycle.

And so those are the categories I really focus on realizing. I know you guys have explained this so well, but we don't have a need for carbs. So those are the first to go. If I'm. Like, prioritizing nutrients, not that I never eat them, they just aren't my focus because it's not a good nutrient dense food.

For the volume of food I'm eating. So it really is often protein and then healthy fats. And my diet is often extremely boring and on repeat. Cause I know what I feel best on. So, um, like you mentioned, I'll often [00:26:00] have something like steak for breakfast with oysters drizzle, olive oil on it. Um, it I'll often include either bone broth or some form of organ meats possible, or for a while in my healing phase, I intensely crazed, but craved bone marrow.

So I ate absolute ton of bone marrow. Um, And so I'll just try to incorporate those kind of foods and that's very much often what my day looks like is as much healthy protein as my body needs with whatever filling in the gaps with healthy fats. So whether it's avocado, whether it's olive oil, whether it's tallow, um, things like eggs, I can now eat and feel great on, um, and, and lots of seafood because I think.

That's the other part in today's world is, like, I feel great when I eat things like oysters and salmon for the visual benefits as well and how supportive of the eyes those are. Um, but the American diet is also very deficient typically in omega 3s and I'm not a fan of, when possible, getting those from supplements.

I think they're better from food when it's available just because it's a more absorbable form. And we know, like, any supplemental form of omega 3s can easily go rancid. [00:27:00] So I try to focus food first and then beyond that, I do supplement with certain things that I have found effective for me over time, but those won't be directly the same for anybody else listening necessarily.

Um, but that's kind of my very boring, very basic repeatable pattern. That's awesome. It's funny how you call it boring too, because I get that it's repetitive, but as you know, those foods are absolutely delicious and incredible. And there's something about the oyster like steak combo where you, there's very few foods where I feel like you can feel this pulse of energy.

I think oysters fall into that category. I think raw milk, um, liver as well, where you eat it and you feel full and satiated, but your stomach kind of just feels flat. Like you don't feel bloated. You don't feel like you need to take a nap. Like, you know, Like you said, you can have some steak and oysters and be ready to record podcasts for four hours straight.

I think people don't even have that mental relationship with food, or they can't even conceive of the fact that your food can actually be filling you with energy and make you feel better after you eat it. Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel 0 percent deprived from not eating the rest of the stuff. It's not that I don't eat it.

Cause [00:28:00] I can't, I don't eat it. Cause I don't want it. I mean, when you live on a diet, that's like steak and oysters and raw cheese and like cream in your coffee, I don't. I don't feel the need to eat anything else. I feel great. Yeah. This is kind of unrelated, but with six kids, you must go through more meat and milk than anyone else in the state of Florida, honestly.

It's pretty insane. Like an average, I can sometimes cook six plus pounds of meat for dinner and it will all be gone. Oh my God. That's incredible. It's like feeding an army. How much, didn't you say, because Harry has three brothers, didn't your mom have a separate milk fridge? We had a separate fridge, basically specifically for like milk and then the freezer was loaded up with ice cream.

It was crazy. I love that. Some people have a beer fridge. You had a milk fridge. Yeah.