The Meat Mafia Podcast

Full Audio
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[00:00:00]

What are you missing internally

if you need to bounce from substance to substance

just to feel like a human being?

I was highly addicted to nicotine pouches

for probably about two years

to be honest with you

it was like the one vice that I just couldn't break

how do you feel like you got to the point

of where you were not

fully in control of what you were doing?

That willingness to actually take action

why would you take action

if you could just sit in bed

and throw that in

and get that same dopamine hit

that you should be getting

going to the gym

or going outside?

I think God finally Just confirmed

within me that a core part of my identity

is that when I get going

on something

I go

I just know that about myself now

I took a nice little walk in the sun

got an espresso

and just enjoyed it outside without a phone

and it was just

I know that sounds so stupidly simple

but compared to like in the past

I would have been frantically scrolling my phone

making sure I didn't miss any messages

not even enjoying the beautiful walk or the scenery

just gotta look those things in the eye and just realize the power that [00:01:00] they have over you

stop worshipping them

stop using them in such a powerful way

that space will be filled by something

and most likely it's going to be something

that is good but it'll take a lot of time for you to fill that

Sir, my man, how are you doing? It feels good to be back in studio. I know we were saying that it's been a little over three weeks since we last recorded together. I mean, you were in a van driving across Texas for two. I mean, we can recap that. How are we doing? Like, give me the, I feel good, man. Um, and so for everyone listening to this, um, we did our episode with Matt Johnson, who just ran 850 miles across the state of Texas from.

El Paso to Galveston, he was averaging like between 45 to 50 miles a day and then raised a ton of money for this charity called ValorFit that helps veterans get placed into fitness jobs after they, um, [00:02:00] graduate out of the military. And so I, I told him that I was going to crew him for the race and, um, I think I joined him on days five or six and then was with him for about Uh, 12 to, like, 12 or 14 days.

So it ended up being, what, 17 days? Yeah, it ended up being 18 days total, I think. And so I was there for just about two weeks. Walk me through just the, the emotional journey that you're, you as, like, the guy helping the guy. The emotional jury that you're going on because I can't even imagine what he was going through.

I mean, he was probably just locked in and focused, but like you guys are behind the scenes. It's like you're driving behind him four miles an hour, like eating like garbage, sleeping like garbage. Not really doing well, we got it. Well, we need to have him back on the show. I know he really wants to do that, but it was, um, it was pretty, it was awesome just being in a role, [00:03:00] just serving someone else too, because, and I don't mean this in like an arrogant way, but I just do think that, you know, the nature of some of the stuff that we do, it's, you know, mafia focused, noble focused, whatever you're used to kind of like driving the ship.

Versus this time, it's like, no, let's, let me just go like serve someone who's trying to do something amazing and be a part of that experience. Totally. And I think that, I think we probably need to chase more experiences where we can actually serve. Definitely. Um, right? Like what does Christ say? Like being a leader is actually a servant.

Um, so that was awesome. And then I was obviously, you know, I definitely had a little bit of mental reservation around just being gone for two weeks. I mean, it's really no different than a vacation. I knew I was going to be working to an extent, but. Not knowing what the wifi situation was going to be like in West Texas, you know, just kind of feeling like maybe I was like abandoning the team or.

Just, just natural feelings of over committal. And I was like, I feel like God wants me to go here. I don't know. I don't necessarily know why, but I think I'll figure it [00:04:00] out. And then after being a part of that experience, um, you know, serving felt amazing. Um, I think just being able to like connect with the crew, the crew is amazing.

The crew chief, Rob Sambianti was an awesome, amazing guy. He literally was, he mapped out, like helped map out the entire course was just, Stuff would go wrong every single day. You know, Matt would be dehydrated. He'd throw up. Um, we need to get extra nutrition. We wouldn't know we were going from a route standpoint and anything you would throw at him.

He would just be like, just so calm, cool, and collected and just responding, just be like, easy day. You got it. And I thought that I thought his, his mental, uh, just like fortitude and calmness was pretty admirable too. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. I can see there's an interesting topic woven into what you just talked about, which is like, You know, being split with a decision of I have some responsibilities back here within this once in a lifetime experience to actually be there for a friend.

And I feel like in those moments, it's a pretty [00:05:00] easy yes, when your gut is like clearly telling you and pushing you in that direction, but it's also incredibly challenging to just kind of like fully commit to that and like be in that zone where you're like comfortable actually Being away for two weeks.

So I, I just think it's cool that you actually did that. Um, and just went for it. Yeah. You gotta make, you've always said that, you've always said like your framework for making decisions is, is it a life changing, is it a memory that I'll never forget? Yes or no? And if it's yes, you do it. 'cause life is really about creating those memories and those experiences, man.

Like the things that you can tell your kids and pass on to your grandkids and you know, and now we we're capturing everything in a time capsule. It's funny, you'll, you'll show me pictures or like newspaper clippings of your grandpa and you, like, I only get to see a picture of him or like, I know you, you knew him to an extent and he passed when you were young, but our grandkids, the great grandkids are actually going to know what Harry's personality is like and Brett's personality is like, you know, they'll be listening to the, the [00:06:00] meat mafia podcast.

That's a little scary. Yeah. Um, well, what did you learn along the way? What was something, any feedback or anything that you're like, Taken away. I mean, like, this is, this is kind of like why I went on that trip. I think that there were just certain moments in like the middle of nowhere, West Texas, where there's nothing besides you, the pavement, the grass, a couple of cows and a windmill.

And just in those moments, just like feeling God moving out there. And, um, that's something we've talked about before, but I think outside of like worship music at a church, church. Your most likely encounter with the Lord is probably out in the area that he actually created, out in the wilderness, out in the wild.

You know, you'd feel him when the sunrise would go up, or the sunset would happen, or just like random moments in the middle of the day. [00:07:00] Yeah, I feel that when I like go skiing. It's like getting on top of the mountain. You're just away from everything else and you see like the entire mountain range and you're just like what this doesn't feel like real life.

Dude, it's God's laboratory. Yeah, and then it's like of course you don't feel him when you're in a room Literally with your shoulders hunched over, scrolling on blue light. Yeah. Drinking Coca Cola, eating processed garbage. And you've done that for months or years on end. It's like, you have, you literally have no connection to the father.

Because you've like, just dissolved that connection entirely. Yeah, you've numbed that frequency. Yeah. Frequency is a really, I've just heard it reused often times to, Describe, you know, tuning into different spiritual components, whether it's like yoga or whatever. But yeah, I truly believe that like God has a frequency, a pace, a speed, and that is so hard to tap into if you're in a city.[00:08:00]

Remember when we moved out to Bastrop and like the light pollution was gone, the noise pollution was gone, and it just got dark at like 5. 30. And you and I would just kind of like, just like be able to work for like two more hours, maybe. And then we'd be like, 7 o'clock in the morning. Just call it. Oh my god.

We would sleep like bang. Dude, I just remember because we moved out there in November of 2022, and that'll always be Such a transformative, like part of our friendship. But there's so many, that's a perfect example of like, just say yes. Well, well, yeah. So we lived at our buddy's, uh, ranch house in Bastrop, beautiful house, incredible little town, like 40 minutes outside of Austin.

And yeah, to your point, it's just, I just going from the hustle and bustle of you, you were in Boston before that Austin. I gone from New York city to San to downtown San Diego, right. To Bastrop and just quiet. And at that point, the sunset was setting earlier, so it would be six [00:09:00] o'clock, you'd be ready to go to bed.

And I think that pace that you're talking about is, I think to an extent what you and I are tapping back into, and I think these seasons, like these physical shifts in season from summer to fall to winter are just awesome opportunities to reevaluate where you're at in life. And I'm really excited for this next season because you talked about this kind of like sacred pace.

And, um, one of the other things that I picked up on that trip was, um, you know, I, I quit nicotine pouches like four days before I had gone out there, maybe five, four or five days. And um, I think people that listened to the show could probably pick up on it, but you know,

I was like highly addicted to nicotine pouches for probably about two years, to be honest with you.

Like basically since we started living together in Bastrop and. Started off small like anything else and by the end of it, I was probably consuming 180 to [00:10:00] 200 to 200 milligrams plus, which is like north of a 10 a day. And, um, you had done a really good job of getting off of it a long time ago. And I just, it was like the one vice that I just couldn't break.

I was like, I just need it for my dopamine. I need it for work. I need it for productivity. Totally. And, um, I had quit. Uh, well, we, I mean, we could separately do a podcast on this, but I, I quit Kratom and Feel Free a few months earlier. And so I think Brett, I just had this feeling in the summer of like, it was Kratom, it was Feel Free, it was, uh, overly caffeinated beverages.

It was just constantly needing to be stimulated, almost like just not being able to wake out of bed, wake up out of bed as Brett and just go through life normally. Just always needing something to get that edge. And so it's like, what are you missing internally if you need to bounce from substance to substance just to feel like a human being?

And so, I just felt this, I almost felt like this dirty feeling inside, [00:11:00] where I would always need to go buy a gas station to make sure I had enough nicotine, make sure I had that Zin, that Lucy pouch. Oh, Hey, I'm running low. I got to get it. Oh, I forgot it in the house. I got to go buy another one, even though I'd already bought in two.

And I just, I just reached this moment where I was on a call with our buddy trip and I like took out the mango pouch that I had and I threw it on the ground. It was like, I think I'm really done for good. And then I posted about it, uh, just on Instagram. Cause I find that having that public accountability is really helpful.

And then I just went into the abyss. Just like slowly drifted into the, the dark, dark abyss of withdrawals. So. I guess setting the stage a little bit more too. Yeah. The context is really, you two, two, three years ago are coming down to Austin, ran an Ironman. Mm hmm. Peak, peak shape. Had you ever been in as good a shape as Ironman?

Not, not from a cardio perspective, no. Yeah. And just eating, just your diet's been dialed. [00:12:00] But as soon as, I feel like these things creep into our sphere, like as soon as we start just loading the

plate up with things, And, um, yeah, I'm curious, kind of, how did you, how do you feel like you got to the point of where you were, like, maybe not fully in control of what you were doing?

Yeah, and I think we, I think we touch on this in an episode where, August was like a breakthrough month for me because I, I think I lost 13 pounds and just cleared the fog once and for all. If you do a full audit of all the, the amazing things that have happened in the last, or in, in August for you, life changing.

Well just, you just, thank you, yeah. Just like, just peeling the onion back, and so, It is funny, though, because I think, um, you can probably trace it back to just starting to consume nicotine and kratom. And my theory is that I think when you're, when you're talking about things like nicotine or kratom or overusing caffeine or social media, [00:13:00] pornography, whatever, in the context of dopamine, it's like if dopamine is that neurotransmitter that's determining your pleasure, but also your willingness to want to take action.

We're no longer getting dopamine from The sources of how men should be getting dopamine from, um, our buddy, Noah, Ryan has a great sub stack article called the, I think it's called the dopamine detox or the dopamine reset. And it was like, it used to be meat and berries. It used to be hunting outside or jumping in a cold river or experiencing a sunshine, reading a book, these like incredible natural sources, things like processed foods, scrolling on social media, consuming nicotine.

You're getting dopamine spikes that are, I know nicotine is, uh, the spike is like two to ten times higher than the natural sources of dopamine, too. So it's like, instead of using, and, and with nicotine, I'm not, I don't think either you or I is trying to make a judgment on the compound itself. I think there's a lot of arguments for and against it.

Yeah. It's more about your [00:14:00] relationship. Yeah, definitely. And that we were both at the point, not to speak for you, but. I was sunup to sundown from the moment I got out of bed to the time I was going to sleep at night, having a pouch in at all times. Yeah. So your baseline is now that 6 to 12 milligram pouch constantly day in and day out.

So your dopamine is, is completely fried. So that willingness to actually take action, why would you take action if you could just sit in bed and throw that in and get that same dopamine hit that you should be getting going to the gym or going outside? Yeah, and you kind of With that it's almost like the rat with the cheese like you're just like rewarding, you know certain behaviors So if it is centered around work Then maybe you ride like the upslope of like the first month where you're like seeing very positive outcomes With certain things, but as soon as you start to lose control of your ability to actually manage the, you know, optimization, like aspect of maybe using a nicotine pouch every now and then, [00:15:00] then you're like, you know, just don't want to randomly and getting that same, you know, reward mechanism of, Oh, like, you know, you're just laying in bed, but you didn't like do anything to have that dopamine hit, just throwing your, your brain and in your body, the, all the signals that your body is trying to balance out at once, you're just throwing it way off.

Totally, man. And it's like, I don't think the sweet spot, I don't, I don't think men are meant to be these like overly optimized biohackers and I don't think we're, we're not meant to be complete degenerates either, but I think it's, I think something that might be really helpful for someone listening to this is just to, just to really sit there and get quiet and just think about, and just make a list on a piece of paper, like, is there anything that you, that you're doing currently that you shouldn't be doing?

Um, And are there any vices or substances or things that maybe just have too much control over your life? Like it could be, you know, pornography, it could be scrolling social media, it could be nicotine pouches, it could be kratom, it could be too much coffee. [00:16:00] It could be, I don't know, I don't necessarily know what that thing is for you, but, and then like, I remember asking myself, what am like, what do I feel like I'm missing internally that I need to opt for this stuff?

Yeah. And I think the answer that I was getting hit with It was probably just fear of failure in doing a lot of things from a creation standpoint and business standpoint that I had never done before and was just really insecure and thought that, you know, these substances will give me that temporary hit to make me feel like I'm invincible and then you pay the piper on the other end of that.

Yeah. Yeah. Dude, I feel like as we were talking, I was just thinking about my relationship with this stuff as well, where even just. Like coffee, for example, I remember the first time I had a cup of coffee. It was like my freshman year of college. That first cup, it literally, I was, my mental approach going into the library after that first cup, [00:17:00] it was like insane.

And I, I didn't grow up having sodas either. So that was like literally one of my first times ever having caffeine. Um, so for me, my relationship with like substances started then and I really, I never had any problems with anything. Like I didn't smoke anything or like do anything until later in college or like I didn't do pouches or anything like that until after college.

And then like, I think it was like, when we got down here two years ago, like just trying the nicotine pouch for the first time skiing. And I was like, Oh, this thing actually is like, you know, it gives you a little bit of a different feel, um, a little bit of a buzz. And yeah, then just using it for work stuff.

And it's so easy to kind of lose just the context of it being helpful. And then the other side of the coin where it's like actually draining your creative capacity and just being a crutch for [00:18:00] something else. Um, so just, I think for me, what made me, cause you mentioned me like just stopping cold turkey, what got me to the other side of realizing that I just wanted to be sober minded.

Was just wanting to like think more clearly and more slowly and not feel like I had to constantly be moving fast to be effective. And that's like always how I felt whenever I would even, even just a coffee or caffeine. It was like, I needed to be fast to be effective and I just don't think that's true.

Um, and I don't work well, I'm just more of a blue sky thinking, like, likes to see the big field and I, I feel like I lose that when I'm like overly stimulated. Yeah. Um, and so, yeah, I just, I, I feel like I was losing that creative capacity because I was taking things that were draining my dopamine. Yeah.

The nicotine pouches, caffeine, um. And like you, it's like, you know, 200 milligrams was [00:19:00] like a, all in a day's worth. Oh, dude, I'm getting out of bed with 200 milligrams and popping in two zins just to get me to the gym in the morning. Yeah. You know, I just remember that. And I think that, I think this is, um, I think this conversation is rooted in truth and honesty and I think the direction of this show is to like, For both of us to fully root this show and truth and honesty and not that we've we never weren't but just being more vulnerable and transparent and I think that is something that we've talked a lot about off camera is how you just see a lot of, um, I don't want to say, I don't know if the word is hiding, but people acting like they need to be perfect because they have a brand or persona and we're all just broken people honestly trying to figure it out and the more vulnerable and open we are.

But I think you, I think it's a good reminder for everyone to just like, Take the advice that you're seeing on the internet with a grain of salt because there's all things that we're going through. Probably the influencer that you're following is potentially hiding something too, not, but, um, It makes me [00:20:00] think about, this is a sidebar, but we've been reading through Luke in our Bible study together and The Lamb.

There's a, Luke 15 is all about these different lost anecdotal stor lost stories, allegories of people It's just people being lost or, you know, using these stories to tell how heaven rejoices when these, like, for example, lost sheep, the one lost sheep out of the hundred herd, you know, they've got the 99 and the one lost sheep is found and heaven rejoices or when one sinner repents, heaven rejoices.

But the 99 who proclaim to be righteous, like heaven doesn't really like care. So in that sense, like, I think that's kind of what we're talking about with this is like, You know, you and I aren't perfect, not pretending to be, I think we like, we wear who we are on our sleeves and just try to be examples of that, like.

There's things that are happening that we just feel like are really relevant because we've either struggled with them, [00:21:00] overcome them, or, you know, are, are dealing with them. Yeah. I think it's important because, um, yeah, at the end of the day, I think a lot of people are dealing with a lot of things that they just keep suppressed, and they don't bring it to the light, and ultimately, the power, healing happens when you put something into the light.

Yes. And you actually, like, talk about it. A hundred percent, dude. That's why, um, it's like Satan wants you to hide in the shadows, right? Oh, dude. He wants you, he wants you scared, ashamed. He wants you so ashamed that you're afraid to talk about it with your best friend. I'm the most messed up person ever.

No one else could relate to this, right? Yeah. Like, I literally have a group chat with ten buddies called Champions of Chastity for guys that are Like trying to not masturbate or watch porn or like engage in celibate practices with their wife or with their, uh, with their girlfriends pre marriage, like primarily a Christian group chat.

And, um, I just started noticing this pattern where, like, the guys would go a couple days without, like, text, because we would, like, text each other, like, if we had made it another [00:22:00] day or if we slipped up. And I would notice that guys, when they would slip up, they, uh, they would just stop responding in the group chat.

Right. So you can kind of assume. And so what I started doing was like, when I, you know, when I slipped up and started, you know, my new streak, I just started sending day one, day two, day three, all the way up to where I'm at now. And we all decided as a group, like we should be sending our days, whether we slip up or we make it.

And the amount of guys now that they truly have that accountability every day, It's like everyone has been so much more accountable too, which is to what you're saying, it's like get out of the shadows and find a great group of friends, colleagues, whoever that are really going to keep you accountable.

That's what real friends do is they, they call you out when you need to be called out. They support you when you need to be supported. They don't lie to your face. They tell you the truth. Yeah. Yeah. There's something too about actually speaking the truth over somebody. Like if you see somebody who's caught in a lie, like how quickly can a lie just.[00:23:00]

Wrap itself up within you internally and just like actually completely distort your own identity your own interactions with people And yeah, if that doesn't get resolved, I think it's kind of just a ticking time bomb, you know 100 percent dude, I've talked to Dana about this but like there were one of the biggest catalysts for me wanting to To quit nicotine was just like the way that I would hide my nicotine usage where I would like be around her And I would be like, Oh, I have to go to the bathroom and then like throwing in casually when we're in the middle of dinner.

And it's like, it's so easy to justify where it's like, it's just nicotine. Like, this is the worst thing that I do. Yeah. But then for her, as your girlfriend who you're going to build a life in the future with, it's like, well, what else are you not honest with your word about? Like, if you can't keep your word to me about this, like.

It's, it, yeah, it just ends up being a snowball and a catalyst to so many other things. Yeah. Um, that was just a, that was a big catalyst for me just finally putting it behind me of just being like, Are you actually going to be a man that's true to your word? Or are you just going to [00:24:00] continue to say all these cool things and put a microphone on yourself and advertise for the right soundbite but behind closed doors in the shadows, like you're not actually practicing what you preach.

I was just so worried about being a fraud. Well, dude, kudos to you for just, you. Making the changes and I mean, dude, it's super impressive. I feel like one of the things that I've noticed too is I don't think it's a coincidence that in August these changes started happening. And then since then, I feel like your relationship with God has taken like three to five X increase in just like, Your appetite for like consuming more, uh, more scripture and just wanting to be around like that, that type of, uh, those types of people and that type of content.

So to me, uh, I'm like, that's not a coincidence. I feel like you've kind of like tuned back in to like the things that actually fill you up. Totally, man. Well, I think I, I think I literally [00:25:00] got my antenna back right after so many repetitions of, Not ultimately doing the things that I should have been doing to develop that antenna.

You just like, you just slowly start to decay at it, and you don't realize until you look in the mirror. Like, if you're, if you're looking in the mirror and you're not proud and smiling back at what you see, and I think that's an exercise that everyone should do, is like, Like smiling at yourself in the mirror, like if you, if you truly don't like that person that you see and you aren't proud of your, of your body of work, like there's, there's, there's something that you should explore, I think.

Definitely. Um, like if you're, if you're not proud of like your human, your actual vessel, like more than, you know, it's, it's way more impactful than putting on a suit or a nice pair of clothing or driving a nice car, like your body and the way that you present yourself to the world. Like, if I can't take care of myself, I don't trust myself, so how could you as my business partner trust me if I can't even take care of the most basic thing?

Yeah. And that stuff compounds on itself too. I think that's one of the [00:26:00] reasons why a lot of people are drawn to stoicism is there's this, there's this physical component to it, or maybe that's just how it's been packaged up and marketed to us in the West. It feels like there is this physical component to the mental and spiritual.

Yes. And like, I love that. I, I think that my pathway to God was totally paved through physical pursuits. Yes. Uh, so, you know, there's so much to be explored through just seeing, liking what you see, liking how you feel. This past weekend, I, I did a fast. 72 hours. 72 hour fast. On a Friday, Saturday. Yeah. It's a beast.

11 pounds. Walked 10 miles on Saturday, did yoga, like, did yoga Friday, Saturday, Sunday, walked 10 miles on Saturday, was just kind of in this phase of like, I feel like this is like the ultimate detox and, dude, at the end of it, I [00:27:00] just felt so clear, just had, just had, um, really put down a lot of things. And, uh, yeah, I, I'm not, I, I think that that's a practice that, It's mostly like now taught and projected as a dietary practice and it's 100 percent just a spiritual discipline and it will create space for having realizations like I need to get off my phone more or I need to quit nicotine or I need to reduce my caffeine consumption.

Like I think those, those are the time periods, like when you cut off food, you go fast, you go for a long walk, and you just like try to listen to God, like that's when you get those insights where it's like, Oh, I actually, I haven't been really been realizing that I'm struggling with this. Um, and I noticed that this weekend, but there was a lot of, Just really cool insights that I was, I was having anything that you could share with [00:28:00] the audience.

Like just what were you kind of getting hit with and, um, one, one of the biggest ones was more of a role, um, that I needed to step into more, it was, um, yeah, just more so interpersonal as, as, uh, someone who can help other people. Um, I just had this realization that this is that like a prayer workshop that I was at on Sunday.

It was all an inner healing and basically we went through this workshop, this guy was going through a, uh, a prayer that he had basically, um, just kind of went through with himself and he shared it with me and then he had to like kind of articulate what he thought it meant. And then I just like spoke some truth into it and just saw like this weight get lifted off him.

And so for me, I was like, I feel like I haven't, and it felt really good to like speak truth into somebody's life. So for me, I was like if that's the power of [00:29:00] the truth and good words, I'm not doing that nearly enough like seeking it out Yeah, because I think if you're actually seeking that healer and I'm not trying to say like, you know in a woo woo way But like truly just being there for people in a way where like you're trying to like construct them You're trying to be like really constructive I just feel like I haven't really stepped into that role in like the meaningful relationships in my life.

I feel like I, I have the capacity for it, um, but haven't really created a space for it. I've kind of been more of like a generalist in that sense recently. Like just like throwing parties in Austin where like I'm bringing people of faith together and it's like, it's great. Or like doing stuff for Noble or Eat Mafia where like having people over to the office and things like that.

But for me, I like just kind of like the one on one being able to speak into somebody's life and just give them encouragement. Um, yeah, that to me is like, I can just think [00:30:00] through moments in my past where that was a really important note and like a really important thing. That I've done and like someone is either been like, dude, what you said to me, like literally helped me so much.

And um, yeah, I just, I feel like I tapped into that and I was like, I really need to hold onto that and make sure I don't, don't forget that feeling of what that can do in somebody else's life. So you want to tap into like owning just the power of the tongue and words of affirmation and encouragement to other people.

Yeah, dude, like you can, you can a hundred percent. You can change somebody's life through the words that you speak over them. Totally. I, like, I believe that. The world was created through God's words. And like, I think that creation in itself is a construction of, you know, the, the words, uh, that, that God created in, in, uh, in the beginning.

It's like, I think the new creations are oftentimes how you speak into somebody else. [00:31:00] Yeah. So, you know, when you see somebody start to actually change their life, they'll probably think of a moment where like somebody else actually gave them some nourishment in the form of. The right, the right words.

Definitely. Um, and I think that For a lot of people, they're very dry. They haven't heard anything from anyone in a long, long time. Yeah. I think there's even like undertones of things that have been normalized by society that might even be like, honestly, like maybe a bit like satanic and we don't even realize it.

And I think one of those things is like living in this perpetual state of fear and being judged by others, because I guarantee you, like the conversations you're talking about the most impactful. Aren't just your close friends, but probably more important, like when you're meeting certain people for maybe the first or second time, and you don't know them, you don't know what someone's going through, but like, if you recognize an awesome trait in [00:32:00] someone or you feel called to speak truth into them, like Satan doesn't want you to do that, but like, or you're just worried about what someone else is thinking about you, or is this going to be too over the top?

And it's like, dude, just like lean all in and be bold and speak your truth because some of the best, like quickest, most amazing budding friendships have come from either me or the other person kind of speaking those incredible truths like right off the bat when it might have not been socially acceptable.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. When you, when you break down that, that barrier, like when you throw a compliment over the, the net to somebody else when you first meet them and they're just like, they're hit by it. You can't beat that. Totally. Totally. Like, you know, you. And that, that could really just, that can breathe life into them forever.

You know, that can echo with like, that could be the thing that gets them the job that changes their life, or that could be the thing that gets them to start working out more, which changes their life. You know, there's so many things that can happen that can like the right things at the [00:33:00] right time can just shift everything.

Totally, man. And that's why I think what you just said relates back to, which is an extension of fasting. It relates back to why it's so important to keep peeling away these layers of like these character traits that are maybe holding you back. Maybe it's like the wrong vices or the wrong source of dopamine because as you peel those layers of the onion back, you, like, I feel that both of us are probably in the most authentic place.

I think we've probably both been in since we've, since we've really become friends. And I know there's way more layers to peel back on. And that's when, like, the magic in life starts to happen, dude, when you really, like, clear that fog and, you know, you delete Instagram for the first time and, like, get, like, actually reset your dopamine, like, that was what was so, that's what, I think, changed my life this last week, was thinking about, one of the things that Noah Ryan said to me was, he was like, it's, dopamine's not this incremental improvement to get more [00:34:00] efficient, it's literally kind of like, this seat that Like almost the vehicle to access your potential as a male.

And so it made me realize whether it was nicotine, whether it was Kratom, whether it was pornography, whether it was. Scrolling on social media, which was the big one that I was hit with the last week. Like you are literally like chipping away at your potential dude. Like, like this version of Brett that you want to be so bad.

Um, because you think it could like build a great family or help your friends out. Like you, like, you're not going to bring that person to life, dude. If you keep like harmlessly scrolling on your phone and not doing the things you need to be doing, man, it was such a wake up call. Yeah. It's not. It's literally just not going to happen.

You're even, even if like the, whatever you're looking for, whether it's like a, you know, financial outcome, business outcome, whatever, like it's not happening to the version of Brett who tanks himself through all of those things that are like somewhat destructive over a long enough period of time. [00:35:00] Yeah.

Um, yeah, I, I think that you have literally just taken a bullet to like all the things that are like these little micro. Or just like things that kind of like just carry around that slowly, over time, they just start to slow you down. Over the past two months, you know, I'm just taking a bullet to all of them.

Yeah, man, well, I'm, I'm worried about, um, no, I hate, I hate using the word worry, but The state of men in general is really interesting to me and it's like, well, if you actually want to lead and try and make a difference, if you're a slave to those same vices, you're not qualified to be a leader. You're just like in the same category as them.

And I do worry about like, you know, the excessive scrolling and social media that young men are exposed to. Um, and women, obviously, but you know, the scrolling, the dopamine, pornography, it's like most men are watching porn years before they ever have an encounter with a woman. And now with Zin's, dude, they said that, um, [00:36:00] I think it's 25 percent of all Zin users are under 18 years of age.

So it's like, they're getting exposed to unnatural amounts of nicotine at a really young age. And I just, I worry for the future generation and like the fact that their dopamine receptors are so fried at a young age and like. The basic things that we did, like playing in a baseball field or like jumping in a pool and just hanging outside.

Like what they used to do, how that would light you up. How that used to make you feel. Yes. Yes. Literally just going to the pool. Yeah. Versus like putting on a virtual reality headset and eating Cheetos. Like I, I really worry about the next generation of men. Oh, dude. It's, it's not a, it can be a pretty unpleasant thought pattern, but I really think that the human spirit is incredible.

Yeah, I totally believe that. There will be a group of people that just won't have it. And I think that there's just a lot of leaders being built up in this time period. Like the next 10 years, we'll look back 50 years from now, and this would be a period where it was very clear [00:37:00] that leaders were being formed from, you know, two years ago until the next 10 years.

I just, I really do think that. There's been enough of a wake up, enough of a disruption in the paradigm that it's broken and people are wanting to make change within themselves because they see externally there's so much off. I think that's the right mindset, just to choose, just to choose default optimism.

Yeah. I mean, we, we have the opportunity to just choose that. And I think the outcome of that is ultimately like everyone around you gets to feed off of that. Yeah, like optimism, you know, optimism is just a way better way of living than just constantly being in fear of like, what's next? Hmm. What, um, do you think you'll do a longer fast than 72 hours at any point in the future?

Dude, I'm, I think I'm gonna do a set. I'm definitely gonna do a seven day one before the end of the year. Nice. [00:38:00] Yeah. Yeah, I really, I want to tap into it, especially I really realized that I, I had, uh, I have some like serious, I had some serious imbalances and I'm working through them right now. Like with the hot yoga, I've just noticed that like, there's just been these releases that are happening.

Um, whether it's like mostly, it's mostly like lower body and shoulders, but like my body's feeling great and I just think that the fast helps like flush some of that lymphatic, uh, just like the lymph system. I just feel like. I'm not walking as much as I used to. It was, it was just, um, not operating the way it should.

So I just wanted to like sweat more, stretch more, and I'm starting to just feel like a huge uptick in energy, focus, concentration. Well, the one thing I love about the yoga mixed with some fasting is just the, the focus that I have during that session carries over to focus and work and [00:39:00] focus in other things.

So I really just, I want kind of my mantra for 2025 to be concentration focused, um, stewardship is another one separately, but like stewardship, like really being, uh, someone who's just, Where they are and have like able to like lock in and just like do what I'm supposed to do here and then move On to the next thing.

Yeah Because I just found myself getting really distracted Recently not recently. I just I know that I struggle with like the scrolling and doing a million different things I just don't know. It's just not fun to me. Like I'm constantly having the the busy mindset. It's really it's kind of lame I just think busy is such a weak word.

Yeah, and It's especially for us without kid like kids make it's like a whole nother layer like, you know, I we've got Businesses got employees. We got people who are relying on us. Yes, but like busy isn't it literally doesn't [00:40:00] help any of that You know, it's funny. I felt like I was busy but a sluggard at the same time.

Did you feel like that? I felt like this incredible Like it was the combination of both of these things, of being busy and not in control, working a thousand miles an hour like a washing machine, and partially due to the fact that you're stimulated out, so you're not going at that sacred pace, which is something I picked up on that you talked about after getting off nicotine and I'm, you know, I'm 23, 3 days in, I'm still resetting the dopamine, but like.

Just like calming down and working thoughtfully and like just pushing energy in the right direction. I just felt very overly stimulated in this past summer, um, prior to August. And then I would just crash where I just like. Basic things I needed to do just felt I just felt like a sluggard. Yeah, and um, I I listened to this Um, the orthodox priest he said that discipline is like this.

It was not the other guy with the bird He has a [00:41:00] great video on discipline that we should link to in the show notes It's it doesn't matter what your bet your beliefs are from a From a faith standpoint, but he's, he says that discipline is like the mother that keeps on giving gifts. And if you are like a slave to good things and you're a slave to discipline and you do the right things day in and day out, it's like the fruit that that's going to bear is going to be incredible.

And that's what my mind keeps going back to, um, getting that dopamine hit from maybe doing like the unsexy things and like almost, Not tricking my brain, but enjoying doing the unsexy things because I know what that's gonna, the fruit that that's gonna bear in the future. Um, and it might be temporarily painful, but I genuinely do believe that the pain of watching YouTube or scrolling or doing something on Netflix when you know that there is really important work that you could be contributing that you're not contributing, that's the biggest fear.

And I think the biggest sin of all is a wasted gift.

[00:42:00] Yeah, yeah, I've just, I've stepped into this. Deep feeling of, if it's not part of the plan, it's a no. Like have a plan and then just like, Jolie's in love with this, but it's like, she, her family has an expression, have like, have a plan, work a plan. And that is what I truly believe life is like.

You should be following some plan to the things that you want to do. Like if your plan is to build a business, like there should be so many steps to get you to like where you want to go and all of the things that you need to do should be clearly laid out. Uh, it should. It really shouldn't be a matter of, uh, if like just cut out all the ambiguity.

It's like, if you can map out a plan to, you know, every little step of all the things that you need to do, then it's just pure execution. I just think it's becoming more and more difficult to do that in today's world with just so many opportunities, especially with, you know, [00:43:00] our situation, which is, you know, media business and, uh, noble, it's like, there's a lot going on, so really just like skinning down, simplifying.

And focus on the things that really move the needle. Mm. Yeah, I would um, I would encourage everyone to just go onto their phone and click settings and go to their screen time and just see how much time they're spending on their phone. And just realizing that you're probably spending somewhere between five to ten hours on your phone.

I think the average person spends seven hours on it a day. So like you think you don't have time, dude, you're, you're, if you cut that out, man, it doesn't, obviously you don't need to cut out a hundred percent, but even if you just cut out an extra two and a half, three hours, you're buying back time, you're buying back time.

I'm like, if I can't, if I can't buy back three hours and do everything that was like stressing me out before, I mean, come on, man, like three hours a day is enough to literally start a side business while working a nine to five that blossoms into something beautiful. Yeah. Like buy back your time because it's there, man.

Like at the very [00:44:00] least, use that three hours to go get more sleep or something. Yes, yes. Yeah, you know. The problem is that this isn't, this is uh, it's like an unsexy silver bullet. Yeah. Like if the best thing you did from a practical standpoint, not even incorporating faith into it, was literally just buy atomic habits and start habit stacking and buying your time back, like, and just methodically work the plan.

And quit the nicotine and quit the alcohol and stop watching porn and go through those white knuckling withdrawals. The person you're going to be on the other side of that man is literally the person that you've been like praying that you could become for years. You're just, you just don't have the fortitude right now to do it.

And the thing is, is it just sucks doing it. There's no cheat, like there's no cheat code to muscle through like wick nicotine withdrawals, right? Like in the van, Matt Johnson's van, when we did the race across Texas, he had like 50 nicotine cans in there and I'd quit five days ago. Yeah. And I'm like, dude, I literally said I'm done.

I'm not going back. I will feel like the biggest coward if I quit, if I quit and [00:45:00] capitulate again. And now I'm not, I'm not anywhere close to 100%, but I'm finally on the other side of that wave. And just like I saw you go through with nicotine and all these other vices and That's it, man, is there's, I wish there was a Chico, but there's really, there's really not, and that's why it's so beautiful.

Just gotta look those things in the eye and just, like, realize the power that they have over you. Stop worshipping them, stop using them in such a powerful way. And, That space will be filled by something. Yeah. And most likely it's going to be something that is good, but it'll take a lot of time for you to fill that.

Totally. And again, I don't think either you or I are making statement. We're not making statements at all around nicotine, whether nicotine is good or bad. Yeah. Because I remember when I quit and I posted about it, I got a ton of feedback in a lot of men that were justifying their nicotine use. And I'm like, what?

What was that like? I was just like, I just said, I'm like, dude, I'm not telling you that what [00:46:00] you're doing is good or bad. I'm just saying to you, I can't do, you're saying you can do two or three pouches a day. Dude, if you're using it to be productive and crank out work, like God bless you, that's amazing.

I just, I can't do it. I have a chronically addictive personality where I just abuse every substance that I put my hands on. Yeah, yeah, I think God finally, Just confirmed within me like that like a core part of my identity is that like when I get going on something I go. Yeah, and I'm just like I just know that about myself now.

I'm like, yeah, I just I need to live outside of that There's a lot of, and there's a lot of fruit that that bears for you when you channel in the right direction. But just some of these substances and vices, it's like, it can, you know, you can burn it all to the ground if you do it in a negative way. Yeah.

Which is why it's, that you, you did the, you drew a line in the sand, um, and you didn't go back and that was it. I just want to like fill my cup up with stuff that makes me [00:47:00] feel good. Yeah. Like, go hit a sauna, go hit a lift, go for a walk, go have a good convo, like, I know. Like, life is so much better when you're not numbing it with random stuff.

Dude, yesterday we were talking about this. We had a, we had a great meeting in Clarksville, which is like this awesome part of Austin, and we, we met with our great friend, and I just left my, I was like, I'm leaving my phone in the car, dude. Because one of the things I was reading about was just the presence of your phone in your pocket at a meeting, how you, even just having it on your person, you're not going to be fully present.

Dude. So I just left in the car, we had a great meeting, little Swedish awesome coffee shop. I left my phone in the car, I made sure I didn't miss anything for work, so I checked it, we're all good. And then I just took ten minutes, I took a nice little walk in the sun, got an espresso, um, and just enjoyed it outside without a phone, and then I just walked back, and then I just drove back to the office and did some more work, and it was just I know it sounds so stupidly simple, but [00:48:00] compared to like in the past, I would have been frantically scrolling my phone, making sure I didn't miss any messages, not even enjoying the beautiful walk or the scenery.

Like it just made me think how, how much am I, how much have I missed up until this point? And it's a sunk cost, but yeah, it was crazy to think about. I think everyone's struggling with this, or maybe I'm cra maybe I'm crazy. Everyone's struggling with it, for sure. Like, uh, I, uh, two weeks ago, I took a three hour walk around Lady Bird.

No phone. Three hours? No phone, no headbo no headphones. I'm just walking. Yeah. Dude. It was such a good unplug. I hadn't done anything like that in such a long time. Another reason why I like the hot yoga and like the class settings, cause like sometimes, you know, even coming over to the gym over here, it's like I'll bring my phone, have it in my pocket, hit a set, my phone, whatever.

It's like, this thing is literally has control over us right now. Dude, to, to your point, you've done a really good job of this, of just [00:49:00] leaving the phone and just living life the way humans are actually supposed to live life. Like Up until 15 years ago, we didn't have cell phones in our pocket and earbuds in everywhere that we go.

Like even like one of the things I love to do is I get in the car, I hook it up to, to airplay and I'll throw in, you know, Earl Nightingale or grave mine, like there's awesome self help tapes. And I'm like, even like, that's great. But. If I can't withstand the silence of a 20 minute car ride in my own thoughts, we're missing some, there's some gap here that needs to be corrected for, I think.

Yeah. Because when is the creativity going to hit you if your brain is always stimulated? When are you going to get that beautiful spurts of inspiration from God when you're always medicated by something? It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. You got to be plugged into just like being outside, slowing down.

Simplifying, decluttering. Dude, one of the things that, um, Yeah, you made me think of, I just [00:50:00] totally lost my train of thought. That thought's gone. Maybe if we just sit here and just channel it, you know, it'll strike, let it pop up. You're going to love this story. So our, the Bible study that we do on Thursdays, we do scripture memory and some of the scripture is intense.

You got to memorize a new piece of scripture. And so the, one of the guys, Chris, that co hosts it. He literally laminated this football esque playbook of all of our pieces of scripture to memorize over the nine months. Bill Belichick. So I brought that to Squatch this morning. I didn't bring my phone. So I literally was carrying the playbook with me.

And I could tell even this morning that I was getting, like, really interesting looks about, like, what is, like, what is this guy carrying around? I don't, it was I love that. I think that, I think my accountability challenge next week is gonna be Instead of my phone, I'm going to just carry the laminated playbook to every, every gym session that I go to.

And I have to keep it on my person. Dude, I love that so [00:51:00] much. How many good conversations will come from that? Hopefully a hot man. Yeah, I love that. Just, I think people are craving other people to just like fierce, like fiercely just live in their, their own truth and be bold and wear their heart on their sleeve, honestly.

Yeah, yeah. There's something about, I don't know, I just, I feel like we've kind of started, we've broken away from, Old lifestyle habits and things like that. And it's cool just seeing other people living that way. Like I've drawn so much inspiration being at an Austin seeing all the different weird and cool things that people are doing to fill their time and create projects and like, there's just such a creative hub down here that just does not exist from where I came from.

So like, it's really fascinating to me to be around these types of people who are just so comfortable, I just do them, whatever. And like, I, I love that about Austin, but like, if you were to, if you were to do what you just said with like the, the play sheet, like, oh [00:52:00] my God, dude, oh my gosh, you would get like down here, people will be like, yo, what is that?

Or like, you know, they would at least be interested. Like, New York would just, my old dream in New York. What the fuck are you doing? Suffer, bitch. Yeah, that's the, that is the amazing thing about this city. It's so culturally different. When did we, is it, so it's been three years since we, to the, since we've been in Austin.

Dude, when was, almost, probably almost the day. I mean, I got down here October 1st, but we Well, the day was the race. The day was the race. It was like the 22nd or something like that. That's, that's amazing. So it's only been three years since we've been. It's crazy. So since we started everything before the mafia.

What are the odds of 4 miles right now? I could do it. I think you could. In two hours and 45 minutes, but I could do it. It'd be a little bit of a float. Yeah. Maybe we'll do it. We'll do another. We're going to sign up for something soon. Yeah. I'm going to do the [00:53:00] Austin or the 3M half marathon in January.

Nice. Half marathon? Perfect distance. And you could smoke that thing too and train and get really fast. That's the plan. Like that. That's the plan. That's going to be awesome. Trying to get it quick. Um, what else did we talk about? About addiction, dopamine? Yeah.

Doomscrolling, healing, um, what else do we need to touch on? I think one of the things, I think one of the last things maybe to tie a bow in the conversation, I think one of the little bow, I think one of the things you were saying when you were bringing up stoicism and I think you were leaning towards this and then the conversation changed is I think you were going to talk about maybe one of the problems you would have with stoicism where like conceptually it's good, but it's all about like self control of like, you're almost the God of your life where.

I think something you've spent a lot of time talking about is like being, being an [00:54:00] obedient son to God. So there's like this blend of like obedience of being able to get quiet and listen to what God wants you to do. Be able to have discipline in your life. But the only reason why you're actually able to have discipline is not.

through your own vessel. It's it's through the Lord. That's actually giving yourself the ability to have that discipline. Um, and so where I'm trying to relate that to is like through the, through the vices, like through, you know, the nicotine and the kratom and all these things, celibacy. Um, like if I don't have a relationship with God, there's no way I'm staying on the path.

Like I prom like that is why the 12 step program is rooted in faith because there's no way you're gonna be able to overcome this stuff without, without belief in, in relationship with God. Yeah. You need to be fully surrendered. Um, yeah, throw the self help books out the door, throw the self discipline stuff out the door.

I think there's some, there's some tangible benefit for some of that stuff, but if you want the full [00:55:00] picture of how to heal yourself and how to really find fulfillment in life, it's not in putting yourself at the center of the problem and the solution, which is what all of those things do. They identify you as a problem, you as a solution, and it's a trap.

It's a never ending trap. Uh, the way you get out of that is by realizing, accepting that. You are like, you are a son of God. You are a child of God. And if you surrender to him and allow him to work through you, you will slowly peel away all of the things that aren't going to be useful, peel them away over time.

And you'll, you'll grow in that relationship and understand what it means to follow, um, follow Jesus, follow God. And I think that surrendering process teaches you that surrendering to a higher power, ultimately. Let's that power come into you and flow into you and flow through you and makes you [00:56:00] completely change your heart at the day.

Like, you don't want to feel like a slave to the things that are bothering you and you won't feel that way if you are serving a slave to the master. He's like a, almost like a potter that's like just shaping you and molding you. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a really interesting point that you bring up where it's like, And it's like, I, I don't think you're saying like literally rip up a self help book or like, you're like, there it's help.

It's just, it's a small piece of the puzzle, but they're taking from these, like, they're really just, all these books are just taking from like biblical principles. Like when you go back and read scripture, like, Oh, this is this book. Yeah. It's like looking at a painting, then they've, they've painted like a part of it really like beautifully.

And then there's like parts just missing, you know? And like, if you want the full picture, there's. There's that option out there for you, if you make the choice. Yeah, yeah, I think we were talking about this in the car. I think it's [00:57:00] the, the blend of amazing obedience, where like, you have like that in deep intimate relationship with the Lord, where it's like you're listening a lot more than you're speaking and you're like, tell me where you want me to go and I'll go.

And then having like incredible self discipline and the obedience and the self discipline Um, play off of each other. But like when you use the word self discipline, it's like self discipline that's being powered by God. Yes. It's spiritual disciplines are, there's several of them, prayer, meditation, fasting, uh, tithing, um, a few others.

But I would say like those are the four spiritual disciplines. If you use those as tools to just start to shift and shape your life, you will have new relationships with every area, money, people, business, all of it. And it all comes through [00:58:00] in reading scripture, another spiritual discipline. It's like, if you're not, if you're not doing these things, it's really challenging to connect with God.

Mm. Like it is very challenging. Um, so yeah, anyone who's interested in, in that, I think forming your life around the spiritual disciplines, it's like making your bed. They're just good habits to pick up. And then you slowly look back and you're like, dang, these things have literally morphed my thinking. My thoughts are changing.

Mm. The people coming into my life are changing because. You're just making better decisions. Um, yeah, it's a game changer. Talk about the ultimate dopamine hit when that good piece of scripture pops. Can you, can you recite the one that we did this morning? If you tell me the first, if you tell me the first three words, I can.

Let us consider. Let us consider. Let us consider. Can you? You can do it. [00:59:00] Dude, I don't know. Let us consider how we can spur one another on in love and good deeds. On toward loving good deeds. Or is it just towards love? On towards love and good deeds. Not, not giving up meeting together, a summer in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another.

All the more as, as you see the day approaching. Wow. I literally read that Hebrew? It was 10, 24, 25. Yeah. Someone can go spot check there. That was kind of right. I read that 5, 000 times this morning too at the gym and then you. That was unfair. No, no, no. Nope. Not unfair. Alright, so, to wrap, chase real dopamine.

Yeah, yeah, pursue the real, the real richness of life, the real fruit of life is in relationships. And it is hard to have good quality relationships when you're constantly self sabotaging yourself by diminishing your energy through all these [01:00:00] vices and substances. Addictions, things that distract you, things that take you away from the present moment.

So just go after the real stuff. Yeah, I would challenge everyone if you're listening to this, like, if you've never done this before, whether it's with yourself or a significant other or a spouse, just go on like a 30 minute, just go on a 30 minute walk and just leave your phones and just, or like if you're gonna go to a meeting tomorrow after listening to this, like, just leave your phone in the car.

Yeah. And just, just see what happens. Because I think it's going to be pretty magical what that could lead to. I really want to do a phone fast. Like I, I was reading something today. Uh, this like Stanford professor was talking about doing a digital detox. And she mentioned, you know, fasting from your phone for 14 hours to a full month.

I was like, what would it look like to not be on my phone for a full month? Like, I actually don't know if I could do that. Yeah. But. How close can I get to that? Like, maybe it's like checking the phone for like an hour and [01:01:00] just setting up zoom calls for other stuff. I don't know. I don't know what that would look like.

I think what would be so cool through that is because I think someone would listen to you and be like, you're a monk. Like you're not, you don't like capitalism. Like you're just one of those guys that doesn't care about it. And I think it'd be so cool to, I bet you there's a way that you could leverage VAs to make that happen.

And it would be a really cool experiment to report back on. Yeah. I just have VAs in the Philippines responding for like my mom. I bet we could chat GPT. There's a, there's some, there's some way. It wouldn't be easy, but I bet there's a way you could minimalistically do it. Yeah. The, the way to do it honestly would be like, the, the most practical way would be like around Christmas being like, I'm taking, I'm just going to take 10 days around Christmas and like, you're not going to be able to reach me.

for like 20 minutes a day. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Might do that. I think that'd be really interesting. That'd be sweet. So. Good stuff, dude. Anyway, bro. I love you, dude. I appreciate you, man. This is like, I think this is really important, meaningful conversation, and um, yeah, man. Yeah. I hope this helps [01:02:00] someone out.

Yeah.