The Meat Mafia Podcast

Part 1
===

[00:00:00] Charlie, what's happening, brother? Pumped to have you on the pod, man. Yeah, man. About time. We, uh, we've been talking about this for a while, so happy to finally lock it in and get chatting, so. Yeah, I'm glad we got connected through, um, through HVMN and then also our mutual friend Natasha, who runs NBDM Coaching, and I know you're, uh, you're close with her, but just, um, have been admiring your work and your athletic performance from afar for a while, so pumped to get you on the show.

Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man. And small world too, with, with HVMN, the gang there, and then Natasha as well. So, um, when worlds, worlds collide or everyone, at least everyone knows, if you don't know someone, um, you know, something that does with that person, you know, so, um, pretty cool. Does it blow, does it blow your mind sometimes how small the endurance and just like running community actually is?

Yeah, yes. And no, like, honestly, if you told me like five years ago, I would have been like, Nah, that's not true. Like, it's so hard to get, like, to know, you know, this person. Like, no way [00:01:00] I'll ever actually know them. But it's like, there's one degree of separation, man. Like, everyone knows. Everyone, especially like out here in Boulder, even like Austin, like such a big running community, Boulder.

Um, even funny, we were talking, I was running with a buddy this morning who we don't train together, but like, he used to work at a store with someone that I coach now through MVDM out here in Boulder, it's just like, like, he's randomly brought it up. I'm like, wait, how do you know? And it's, his name is Austin Myers.

So I coach him. Um, Through MVDM and he worked with Austin at a running start here in Boulder for a while. So it's just like the circle stuff. That's crazy. That's crazy. And, um, yeah, I think so. Yeah, I've been admiring your content, just getting to, to know you a little bit better through preparation for the show.

But I think just for like the audience's background, um, just a little bit of backstory on you would be a great place to start. You know, I know You've been, you've been running since a very early age, winning state championships and, uh, and the light. So I think just a little bit of context around your athletic background would [00:02:00] be great.

And then we can just dive right into it. Yeah, man. Uh, so we'll kind of start from the beginning. So I grew up in a super, super small town, uh, central Minnesota called Foley, uh, 2, 500 people. I grew up in a family of coaches. So my dad was the head football coach, head track coach, and my mom was the head cross country coach.

So, um, you know, everyone knows everyone in the small town. Um, and I just kind of grew up through it. So in, towards the end of first grade, my parents ended up getting divorced. Um, so then that next fall I'm in second grade, it was either go to cross country practice with my mom or go to daycare because my dad just couldn't handle me at like football practice or, you know, whatever else you had going on.

Um, and the cross country team was small enough where it's like, there's 15 kids and there's, you know, my mom, her assistant and me, so I could just go hang out. So, um, going back to that first day of practice, I'm like, I'm not going to daycare. Um, they're doing like a one mile time trial, essentially like two half mile loops kind of around our campus.

And, um, with some ball fields, you know, the classic like high school ball fields and crap. Um, she's like, you [00:03:00] want to do it? I'm like, not very formally trained. Like I know it was already pretty athletic, you know, from a young age, but I was like, yeah, I'll hop into that. I can do. So just for the seventh and eighth graders, I go in as a second grader, just full stake in the gun, beat all of them, you know, by 30, 40 seconds.

You know, it's like. Oh, shit. Like this kid, it's good. Solid. So, um, periodically it was just showing up at practice stuck with it. You know, some days like I get excited for the workout. So I'd always show up on track days. It's kind of just grew up through it, you know, um, never really forced into it, but obviously had a knack for it.

And I love beating people. So, um, yeah, eventually like you kind of hit on it, you know, won a couple of state titles. I played basketball up through 10th grade, but I knew that I could like, yeah. Go get a scholarship, competed a higher level than I can basketball. So quit that after 10th grade when I went on cross country and track.

So yeah, it was fortunate one, two state titles, um, in third, 200 meters for my junior and senior year, a couple of state runner ups, not fun. A couple of third places. Not fun, but, uh, but still was able to get a division one scholarship to the university of Minnesota. It looked on to other schools, um, like Wisconsin, [00:04:00] Notre Dame, Iowa state.

Um, just wanted to stay home because of a massive, massive tradition there, um, at Minnesota. So big shout out to my coach, coach, I'll call him plies if I've referenced him, but, um, would be here without him. And we were literally texting like an hour ago, just about, I'm going through kind of dealing with a hip strain at the moment, and he's, you know, Heads old hip exercises.

We always had doing college. I've been doing that like every day on repeat with my, with my glute strain. So, um, back to the story, ran for the gophers, um, red shirt, all my freshman year got injured, but then, uh, just a steady progression throughout, you know, um, It was multiple time, all big 10 most time, all big region, never an all American didn't have a pro contract to offer, um, after college, actually.

So I went into, I graduated with a sports management degree and business degree. I double majored in that was getting my master's degree in sports management, but I wanted to work in college sports. So I got a ticket sales job actually for the gophers work that full time while doing my first marathon buildup.

Long story short, plies coached me to it, uh, debuted in 2016, [00:05:00] 10 and 2018 at, uh, California international marathon. And then after that I had a pro contract offer from Hanson Brooks. And so at that point, like, you can't not take it. You know, I wasn't sure what I was like, I was like, I can keep doing what I'm doing in Minnesota, but it's like, no, you can go run pro.

Like you can always come back as if you want to. So, um, lots of my like kind of advisors, plies, my old bosses at the time, like not go take this opportunity. So it was at them through the 2020 Olympic marathon trials finished 61st there. I don't really know how I felt about that. I was pretty disappointed, but then moved to Boulder after that.

So, um, and I've been out here since for the last four years. So I'm just, uh, dabbled a little bit in ultra distances, paced Dez to her 50K world record. So I was kind of my first little taste of it and kind of dove in fully, um, officially this, this past fall where I broke the 50 mile world record. So, and then, uh, it was coming off an Olympic trials race where unfortunately I had the DNF because of a strained glute.

Um, good minimus that I was dealing with for now, but a month actually been kind of shitty, but, um, that's my career in a nutshell there. So, and hopefully, hopefully a lot more to tell in regards to it, [00:06:00] but I love it. And yeah, it's very, very clear that you're, you know, still on the trajectory of building your career out.

If you just started in the sport in terms of just the longer endurance races and you're beating the 50 mile world record, um, I'm sure there's, there's much more to come, which is, uh, I'm sure an exciting. Uh, aspect of this whole whole journey for you, you know, being a young athlete and just knowing that there's tons of potential for you to just continue to grow into the sport, which Honestly, like the older you are in the sport, there's, there's still so much opportunity to keep growing.

Yeah, man. I mean, I'm excited to work, you know, it was my first, and truthfully, it had been really about a two year buildup where in my head, I was like, right after I pasted Des, so I pasted her, her 50 K and I'll say, Hey, so I just kept her company. She did all the work. I was just helping her maintain pace.

Like she, she did it all. Um, but I pasted her for 50 K. So 31 miles and change at five 47 pace. And in my head clicked, I was like, all right, well, the 50 mile world record is five 48 [00:07:00] pace. I just paced as, as a, we'll do just a workout as a long run, no taper, no nothing at five 47 pace. So in my head, I'm like, I think I can go break.

The fifth mile world record, like when I'm going to do that, I'm not sure, but in my head, like in my head, I, that's when it first clicked. So that was April of 2021, you know, finally got it in November of 2013. Um, but yeah, and that's, that's the thing too, is my first 15 miler, when I'll get a world record, if I can go do, you know, replicate that in either a hundred K or, um, Eventually a hundred miles.

We'll see. I'm, I think I'm a few years away from that, but everyone's already trying to push me to like Western States, Leadville. Like I'm, I'm good for now. I'll try to keep dominating kind of the road ultras I officially move with the trails. But yeah, I'm thinking at least minimum five upwards of maybe 10 years of still trying to do what I can at least in the marathon and up, you know, cause I think the marathon distance ultimately helps.

You stay faster for these altered distances, right? Yeah. I love your approach there. It's like pretty easy to try to say yes to everything and all the, uh, the [00:08:00] opportunities that people outside of your, your close inner circle want you to do. Cause they see the potential and the talent, but, um, yeah, incredibly mature approach just to be like, Hey, I'm just going to focus on what feels right right now.

Um, what I really love about your story too, that, that initial story of you in second grade going up against the seventh and eighth graders. And just putting it on them. Like, I imagine for you that that sparked like a certain level of drive where you realize you have this natural talent that most people just don't have.

Um, and so like for you to see that at an early age is so rare, you know, most people don't have, don't have that type of experience where, you know, they're outperforming kids who are years and years ahead of them. So, um, I, I just love that. Yeah, it was fun. Like, I remember too, like biblically, you know, and like.

You click back to moments, whether it's like in your athletic career, just like, um, you just life moments where it's like, that was like, you just remember kind of being in that moment. Totally. [00:09:00] Like, I remember my mom asked like vividly, like the backside of like, of our school, like said that kind of grass, we put the ball fields and be like, you want to do it?

And all of a sudden I just got like really, really nervous. Like even as a second grader, I was like, dude, no one cares. Like what? Like, it's not a big deal. But I was like, I'm just going to see what I can do. And just like adrenaline rush, just stick it for like, I felt like I was just sprinting, you know?

And like, fortunately, like, you know, maintained it. No one got me, you know, so, um, pretty fun. So that's still a rush that. You know, I still get that excitement, you know, on, on big races and those lines, just that, uh, that anticipation. So, um, yeah, and I was, you know, from that guy, like I was up for blood, you know, and that's, that's kind of how the mentality that I still have, you know, it was like, Go put people away and like put them in the dirt and like really beat people.

You know, that's what's fun about this sport. So it's the competition of it. Yeah. I love that. And especially like, I think if you can bring a childlike mentality to competitive sports where there is like that, uh, really, really [00:10:00] like free thinking, big thinking, uh, ability that allows your body to operate at a level that, you know, most people probably don't think it's possible, uh, that's But just being a kid and, you know, feeling those nerves, but just being like, I'm just going to send it and like, see where my body can take me.

Um, if you can tap into that at an early enough age, it can, it can carry you very far because you realize just how much your body is actually capable of. If your mind really thinks that you can beat those seventh and eighth graders. Oh, yeah. And that, and that's half the battle too, you know, like, like I was, I was injured.

Like going back to my 50 miler, I was injured all of 2022. Like I came down with a grade four sickle stress fracture, January of 2022. My next race after that was February of 2023, the Austin half, actually. So like I was injured with, like, I got started getting healthy, flared up again, miss a little bit, the entire summer fall of 2022 and like, and in my head, it was just like, You know, like telling myself, like, dude, like, you can go get this, like, just like telling myself, you know, getting in [00:11:00] that mental head space that you can go get this record, you can do it.

Um, just kind of that mind frame from, you know, the early age, like, you don't believe in yourself, seeing your, your ability kind of transitioning through. So, yeah, it sounds like you had a pretty special relationship with your college coach. Did you have, um, Anyone early on, because I know, like, at least from personal experience and from friends who have actually had success athletically, there's always like that coach along the way that inspires a little bit of like extra, um, vision to what you think you're capable of.

Was there anyone early on that gave you that little extra push to say, Hey, Yeah, Charlie, you can really do something with this, this talent. You've got, I mean, a hundred percent my dad, I'd say that like through and through, I mean, he was a, he was a D two, like all American at a university, Minnesota, Duluth actually had a small stint with the Vikings, just a free gap that, you know, six foot, like could fly around the field.

He was a cornerback, but he's had kind of that, just that killer mentality. So like, and I saw that from, from day one, like he was never like. That cocky or anything, but like, once you got him talking about [00:12:00] football and like, the year, like that they were undefeated, like making a run for the national title and stuff, like you see him just get this swagger and all that.

And like, so like from a very, very young age, cause like he had these trophies, you know, just like in, in his man cave. And I'd see that, I'm like, you know, what is this? This one's really big. Like, tell me about this. He's like, oh yeah, it's like, I was the, you know, interceptions leader, like in the country, you know, all this, like dope things.

And it's just like, he's not, he's not being that cocky, but then it's like, Oh shit. Like he was really good, you know, and I remember telling him when I was young, I'm like, I want to have more than you, you know, just like all this stuff. So, um, definitely looked up to him, but then he'd always push me. You know, he was the dude where, you know, like even going to like, to like visualization of like where you're at in a race or all that.

He was the first one to ever be like. Yeah. Like you're going to win state this spring. Like, you just tell me that, like, I just wake up and be like, what's up champ. Like, what do you mean? He's like, Oh, you're going to win state. Like he would just, so by the time I even got to like the line of state meet my, you know, junior year in the, in track is like, I already thought I was going to win.

Just like, like our interest would be to like, I'm on that line for the 50 mile. Like I knew I [00:13:00] was going to win that race, you know, or knew I was going to go, I knew I was going to get the record. I didn't doubt it. For a second, like I'd visualize that, seen it for years, at least a couple of years, and my dad had told me that, you know, for months leading in, you know, so, um, kind of pull, pull from that.

And then also plaz, I mean, college coach. So he, he did a little different way, like a little differently. Um, whereas like, cause I was a small town kid, you know, like it's, it's just like, this is not taking a shot, like small town kids, but it's like, it's not hard to look that good, if that makes sense, you know, so like, so you're, and again, I was.

You know, one of like two guys in class, a like in, you know, throughout high school or is like every meet I show up to, I'm going to win by a minute, like minimum, you know, like, it's just not that competitive, you know? So, so, so you look pretty good against. Average other participants, you know, like not, not taking shots at them, but it was just, wasn't hard.

So like, so he always told me, he's like, yeah, it's going to be a big adjustment, you know, getting to the big 10 level. Um, but he knew I was just a [00:14:00] competitive, like super fiery. He was also, he's a hothead, super fiery as well. We knew how to fire him. He'd be like, yeah, like I maybe see a scoring, you know, maybe like your third, fourth, fifth year, you know, like, you're not going to be a contributor right away.

And that just pissed me off. And, and, and, and he knew it dead. So like, So I just use that as fire, you know, and he'd always say. Well, I guess I'll back up. So like my first race in the Jersey, um, my second year, cause I registered all my freshman year, um, came out with an injury too, but I was going to register it anyways.

And most likely I was second on the team. My first ever, ever race in the Jersey. So like, I'm like, see, I'm here, like, kind of like prove you wrong. Um, type of mentality just fired me up, you know, and then throughout college too, he'd always say like, dude, you're going to be really good on the roads.

Whatever like really good meant is kind of up for interpretation. Um, I think now you can say like a world record is pretty good. Um, but he was always just kind of instill like that quiet confidence, like progressively built up my mileage, built up the long runs, pushed me on long runs. Let me go, go run sub sixes.

You know, like, especially my fourth, fifth year. And I [00:15:00] was the one that was running the most volume in college, you know, through him progressively building me up, doing the smart way, um, still challenged me in those ways, like, Hey, you know, it's good, but it's not like that good, you know, or like, um, so, so he dropped those little hand spells too, like he'd always instilled in me, like, yo, you're going to be like, you have a career beyond beyond college if you want to on the roads, cause like, you're good at this distance.

I think you're going to be even better at the longer stuff. And ultimately, you know, he was, He was right. So, um, circling back to your question was definitely like one, my dad, um, and two, you know, plaz, you know, wouldn't be, wouldn't be here without those two. And also, you know, my mom in high school, she was my cross country coach.

She gave me a lot of freedom to truthfully do really whatever I wanted. Um, you know, I'd see like a workout Wednesday from flowjack, like a Galen rep workout or like a Dathan Ritzenheimer workout, like, Oh, we can try to replicate that, you know, do something, you know, obviously tweak it to, you know, what I was doing.

I'm like, Hey, I think I want to do this workout. What do you think? Yeah. Sure. We'll have the kids do half of that, you know, or what do yourself with that and, and start them early on rep. So you can chase them, um, just fun like that. So, [00:16:00] but 100%, you know, my, my dad in class, you know, through and through. And then even to like, going back to my professional, like getting my first opportunity, like Kevin Hanson.

So, you know, I left those guys after the 2020 trials and like, and I don't want to say I regret leaving, but I definitely, like, I wasn't, I wasn't in the system long enough to truly benefit from their system, kind of their cumulative fatigue. Um, here in marathon training, um, where I, I was super, super fatigued from it, but that's how I write most of my training now is like, it's based off of they're kind of 14 and four double days, big block marathon sessions.

Um, cause it works, you know, so you, you, you take what, what you, what worked for you in college with Hanson's with, you know, my coach Corey out here. Um, And, you know, roots, the other group I was with out here, like what works for me and put it in a mixed bag, but ultimately it's probably again, so going back to your question, definitely like my dad, Plaz, um, Kevin Hanson for giving me that, uh, the first kind of pro opportunity, cause I wouldn't be, we'll be out here without him.

So, yeah, I love, um, I love what you're [00:17:00] saying about Plaz just knowing like the right buttons to press. With you in terms of supporting you in terms of not breaking you and, and discouraging you, but also knowing exactly how to fire you up and get you motivated to the point where you're competing at the big 10 level, um, and getting, getting you probably, you know, to a point faster than you, you might've thought of just by, you know, antagonizing you a little bit and getting you fired up to actually get out there and push it a little bit more.

Oh yeah. And that's the thing too, like we, like, we're both total competitors, total hotheads. Like there were times where we like, we were at each other's throats a couple of times over just really dumb stuff. But like, I mean, he, he'd like, he, he'd have me by the shirt and stuff before like screaming at me.

Cause I'd like, I'd gone too fast in a workout, you know, and just like, or made a comment that like one smart. And so he knew like anybody, he knew he could say it to me and I can. Take a while. Wouldn't go, you want to go jump in and transfer portal or, or, or, you know, that, you know, just [00:18:00] piss me off and just motivate me.

So, um, we, we had that kind of relationship and really still do. So that's awesome. Yeah. It seems like you tapped into, to something pretty special with your dad. Um, just what he instilled in you from like the visualization and almost expectation standpoint, where. It seems to me like a lot of people outside of the athletic fields and even in some sports, like I grew up playing baseball and golf.

And if your expectation is that you're going to strike out or that you're going to, you know, hit, hit the ball in the woods. If your head's, you know, you're, if your head's in the place where you think you're going to strike out, good luck getting a hit. Like the chances of you actually doing that are much lower and just giving yourself that expectation that like, Yeah, I'm going to win States.

And even if that comes across as cocky to some people, I think for most people who understand athletics, you need to put yourself in that, that headspace before you even start practicing that season. So you, you approach every practice session without [00:19:00] that expectation that I'm the guy who's going to be competing for a state championship this year, like that's, that's who I am.

Yeah, man. I mean that, and that's the mentality, even like my girlfriend was so sick of it, because like, we started like talking, like, A month after I got injured. So that's like February of 2022. And like, we've just been really kind of seeing each other since honestly. Um, and I told her, I'm like, yeah, I think I want to break the fifth mile world record as I'm like, not running a step, I'm cross training on the bike in the pool every day, like my mentality at that same time, I'm just like, all right.

It's like, If I want to break the world record, which was four 50 Oh eight at the time, like I have to be running for at least four hours, you know, 49 minutes and change, you know? So it's like, so why, why does a three hour, like full session bother you? Why does like a five hour bike ride or six hour, or even like a hundred, like, uh, a century ride?

Like, why does that bother you? You can go do that in like six, seven hours. Like biking is way easier than running, you know? So like, so this like cross training should not bother you in, in like, while I'm doing that, I'm just like visualizing, like being at the race, [00:20:00] breaking it, like, Even get to like two hours into the pool.

It's like, okay. Like you have at least three hours to go if you're running or, you know, two hours and 45 minutes to go if I'm running, you know, a 50 mile race. So just visualizing that, convincing myself like, Hey, you can do this another two hours or, you know, another hour in the pool, just like getting myself to like, Believe in it, visualize it.

So like it had been in my head for truthfully two years. And, you know, Alison, my girlfriend definitely got sick of me saying it. And he got to the point where to where she was like, We'll go do it then go to, I'm like, watch me. Like, I'm just like, I'm gonna go do it. Like I have the race, like it's on my schedule.

Like, I'm gonna go do it. It's like, well, it's still, that's a long way to go. I'm like, yeah, you haven't run 50 miles. I'm like, yeah, I haven't. But it's like, I've visualized enough to like, just be overly, I wouldn't say overly confident, but definitely like, you know, There's an aspect of that confidence, you know, so where I was just, I was just fully ready for it.

And even too, like, I used to work, I, I ran a marathon a week or four weeks prior, sold it as a workout, like warm long, warmup, long, cool down. I was the only person cooling down on the day. And it was just like, you know, I was injured all of 2022, so I wasn't able to get my trials [00:21:00] qualifier. So I'm like, well, I can hopefully double dip, get my trials qualifier, get a workout for the 50 mile even too.

I was just obviously saying, eh. Getting, getting an Olympic trials qualifier isn't hard. Just like if you, if you consider yourself a good marathoner, you better go have that. So I'm like, I'm just going to like. I wish I, truthfully, now looking back, if I would have tapered, I think it was in probably 214, 215 low shape and I've run into 1610, but as a workout, so like, um, but in my head, I'm like, I can easily run to 18.

No, that shouldn't be. I just told myself like, that's not that hard. Like if you consider yourself a good marathon or 218 should not be difficult. So go out, go do it, execute, move on, you know, and get ready for the 50 miler. So it's just that visualization through. What are the last two years or, you know, like you were saying the months leading into the state championship, um, you know, that, you know, it's just like been practiced for the last really, that was 2012 at this point.

So, you know, 12, 13 years going on that kind of just like those mind, like, What you can do with your mind, you know, it's super, super powerful for sure. Yeah. It's the differentiator for most every athlete who's ever been the best [00:22:00] at anything that he or she has ever done. I'm curious if you feel like you have a mentor physical edge that you want to keep pressing into to get to these next level results that you're ultimately chasing right now, is there, is there anything that you're you've identified within yourself that makes you different that you're like, Hey, I need to just like double down on this.

Yeah, I think I'm just so good at like, I don't think the best way to phrase this. I'm just very good at being like, very uncomfortable for a very, very, very long time, like, truthfully, like five. So what I averaged was 546. I was on five, like 40 pace through like 40 through 40 miles. I just like, I just never run 40 miles in my life.

Like positive sweat. I ran a couple, like six thirties at the end. Cause I was just blowing up. Like I was just out of calories still on pace. And I knew it. Like, I'm like, I'm like, I can pretty much run seven flats last five miles and still get it, you know? Um, But for me, it's just like being used to and put in practice, like just being very uncomfortable and workouts are in [00:23:00] the long run.

It's like my, and for years, I just always been good at through, through college, um, it was to kind of touch on earlier, it was just like going and running like 16, 18 miles, like six flat pace out the gate, go hit it. Um, that's what I was always good at. Like Hanson's, we never ran that far. Got to like 22 miles, but like five at five 30 pace.

So it's just like, and I felt like I could have gone farther. It's like, it's not quite marathon pace. Um, it was like, I'm very good at just riding that edge of like, I still have a long way to go. I'm close to cracking, but I know I can hold it. And you just convince yourself you can keep going and going.

Um, and I just, I can just lock in at that, at that pace and be comfortable or be comfortable while yet being uncomfortable. And I just, I just enjoy that. Like I've, I don't say like I'm sick in the head, but I just enjoy. Like knowing that I'm kind of at that line and knowing that I can hold it and knowing that I can hold it longer than anyone else just motivates me more to be like, see suckers, like, like, look what I can do, you know, like, like try to, like, [00:24:00] try to do this because I don't think you can.

Um, so I just like kind of tell myself, like, you're the only one that can do that, you know, um, or Plaza would always say, like, he tells me this all the time. It's like, it's like, no one's going to outwork you, you know? So it's just like, no one's going to outwork me on a long run. No one's going to outwork me in, in like weekly mileage.

That's something I just thrive on. Um, so instead of like in the mind, just like, Getting going to that pain cave and just sitting there, you know, or like, or Mike Brandt, CEO of HVMN, he's like, yeah, I'm going to chew glass, you know, like, like how long can you chew glass for? You know, it's like pretty damn uncomfortable, you know, but it's like, they can do that longer than, than anyone else.

And ultimately too, it just comes down to. Like convincing yourself that you can do more, you know, like there's always more in there. Like, I don't care, like what you say, like, and I guess going back to, and I'll, I'll kind of circle back to this too, like with the 50 milers, like I'd only done a 35 mile day and that was a 28 mile morning with a seven mile, like second run.

Um, so I still have, you know, it's unfettered territory, you know, the next 15 miles really, you know, truthfully, even. Yeah, I've run 50 K. So even though that's like 18 miles and [00:25:00] change, you're still on charter territory, but it's like just how you break it down, you know, like it started getting hard at about 34 miles during the 50 miler, but it's just like, like, I know I can do this for four more miles.

That's when I get to my next bottle. Like, you're going to be fine once you get your next bottle. Then by the time you get to like, you know, 38 ish, it's like, Cool. You're almost to 40. Once you get to 40, like you have 10 miles to go, 10 miles is less than an easy run, you know, like you do that all day. Um, so it's just these mind games and like, you just keep playing those even with the trials where, of course I had to drop out cause I was on one leg.

I didn't do it, but I was like. I felt pretty miserable at about four miles with my hip, um, and I was like, I was like, dude, just get to 10k, get to, so I got to, or got to my second bottle. I'm like, okay, get to 10. And I'm like, okay, get to half. Once I got to half, I'm like, dude, like you could probably get home by that point.

I was, I was limping, you know, like, like noticeably like limping on one leg and it was just like a little damage control. Like, Not worth it. And then, you know, paying the price, like, like I couldn't walk comfortably until a couple of days ago, you know, so like pretty robust, just like, you can just convince yourself [00:26:00] that there's always a little more in there.

You just like break it down incrementally. Cause like anyone can run even two for me mentally. It's like, I can, anyone can run five miles that, you know, 540 pace. It's like, cool, go do it. You just. Don't think about the 30 miles behind you type thing, you know, um, and it's just very good at like sitting in that uncomfortable zone and enjoying it, you know,