The Meat Mafia Podcast

00:02 - Speaker 1
can we hit it? Let's do it okay yeah, yeah.

00:07 - Speaker 2
I literally have never been looking forward to a podcast as much as this is day seven, which is the longest fast I've ever done what are some of the biggest things that have come up for you?

00:14 - Speaker 1
like physical changes, mental changes, spiritual changes would have been the biggest learnings, and just observations over the last week. I don't know, I had never experienced anything like that before.

00:24 - Speaker 2
My body feels incredible, the things that were coming up pretty obvious to me focus, concentration, a mantra to bring out of the fast into the next few months, is just really being locked in, super focused on the things that are important and drop away everything else.

00:38 - Speaker 1
Did you have any thoughts at all about what it must have been like for Christ when he did the 40 day and 40 night?

00:43 - Speaker 2
fast. I almost feel like that was like his battle cry out to Satan to just call him in. Yeah, and let Satan know that, like even at my weakest, I will overpower you. The last thing to me is the spiritual discipline. It's directly communicating with stripping away and throwing parts of you that are just not useful into the fire, letting them burn off. There's just incredible strength on the other side of going through a spiritual practice like that.

01:06 - Speaker 1
The only way you're going to make it through the 7 days or the 14 days, or the 40 days is through his strength, not your own. We're back. What's up, brother?

01:15 - Speaker 2
How you doing. I literally have never been looking forward to a podcast as much as this one today.

01:25 - Speaker 1
I don't think I've ever seen you this excited? Why don't we, why don't you tell the uh, the listeners why you're so excited right now?

01:31 - Speaker 2
well, the backstory is we were texting this morning talking about potentially not doing the podcast because we didn't really have a topic that we really wanted to dive into. I texted. I was like, well, we could talk about this fast that I've been doing. You're're like, how many hours have you been going? And this is my last day of the fast. This is day seven, which is the longest fast I've ever done, and I'm going to eat a little Maui Nui venison stick and some bone broth on the podcast.

01:56 - Speaker 1
Live on the air.

01:58 - Speaker 2
Break the fast. Dude, I've been like it's so funny what happens to you when you go on a fast like that. But the past like two hours all I've been thinking about is food.

02:08 - Speaker 1
I can't even imagine, just like the light at the end of the tunnel. So how many hours has it been on your? Are you using the Xero app?

02:14 - Speaker 2
Xero, yeah, 168. Wow.

02:16 - Speaker 1
Yeah.

02:17 - Speaker 2
So I started it Monday, Monday of last week, right around like right before dinner.

02:24 - Speaker 1
Yeah.

02:25 - Speaker 2
And yeah, Monday of last week right around like right before dinner.

02:28
Yeah and um yeah, I just I've always kind of experimented with fasting and I think you know that's just like find it to be incredibly restorative and it's a huge part of, like my spiritual practice. And I just did a three week one two weeks ago and after that one I felt like I really wanted to go longer, but I think we had like a business thing. I was just like I'm just going to eat and then I was like I'm just going to do the seven day one, cause I feel like I was really getting pushed in that direction and it's been incredible.

02:57 - Speaker 1
So you did a three day fast two weeks ago, two weeks ago, and so you just did a seven. So you're wrapping up a seven day fast, 160 plus hours. Um, was it just something that you were kind of getting hit with in prayer, like what was the? What was the rationale behind wanting to just juice it to seven days?

03:13 - Speaker 2
because it's unbelievable yeah, it was definitely just prayer, like pretty simply, yeah prayer and feeling like it was like god's nudge like that he had something for me there.

03:22
Um, yeah, and I feel like I had done a three-day fast before and kind of also just feeling like pushing something to the extreme, a little bit, like I just have that itch, like whether it's like running long distance or, like you know, having a challenge on a regular basis and I feel like like seven days no eating is like kind of a in terms of just being able to kind of like operate day to day like without having to do do anything special or extra. It's like a pretty simple challenge in terms of not adding anything extra to your life. But yeah, it's, it's a challenge and it's it was yeah, it's been amazing.

04:01 - Speaker 1
I can't even imagine what, um, what are some of the biggest things that have come up for you? Maybe like physical changes, mental changes, spiritual changes, like what is what have been the biggest learnings, and just observations, over the last week?

04:15 - Speaker 2
they kind of unfold over time. But I mean, let's start with the physical, because I mean this is the one that I think is like the. This is like the least, potentially least important realm of where fasting comes into play. But you know, I think fasting it spurs on autophagy and helps with cellular respiration, respiration restoration, where your cells are able to like, cleanse themselves and get rid of all the dead ones. And then what I personally have experienced was I went from 236 to 216.

04:47
wow, which is pretty crazy over 20 pounds, yeah, and I wasn't doing anything, I was just not eating and walking. But it doesn't feel like like I don't feel low energy or anything like that, which is kind of crazy. Um, like my body feels incredible. Um, so, so I don't know. I almost feel like, yeah, I don't, I don't really like like any sort of like crash dieting or anything like that, but through a fast, I feel like there's, there's something there where your like body starts to preserve itself. Um, but it's like really just like cleansing itself. Um, I also found that I was going to the restroom like constantly, like I was drinking a ton of water, but I've never gone to the bathroom that many times over the course of a day. Um, like would go to the bathroom, come sit back down for like 15 minutes and then literally need to go again. Um, so I don't know if it was like my body just like needing to like detox or something like that.

05:44 - Speaker 1
It was super interesting, just like experiencing that, because I had never experienced anything like that before Was this do you remember what day that that started? Like four, yeah, yeah, okay. So like right in the middle of it.

05:55 - Speaker 2
Yeah.

05:56
Like when it started honestly, day one through three is so unique because that's when I felt like I was still dealing with like cravings, food, like food um desires, like wanting to go out to eat, wanting to just grab something, kind of you know craving things, a little bit cranky. And then day four hit and it was just like still like super, still didn't, wasn't craving any food, felt great, like honestly, felt like I could go work out. Uh, worked out this morning, did hot yoga this morning for an hour and 15 minutes and I was literally telling you this, like my body was reacting the best that has ever reacted to me. Like trying to stretch, like if I wanted to go deeper into a stretch, there was like a lot more there to give. So I was like, is that like low inflammation or just, um, like having lost a little bit of weight through the fast, like what was kind of spurring that on um, so I thought it was really interesting.

06:54
I also so, when I do these hot yoga classes, usually I sweat, like no one's like no one has ever sweat in their life, and halfway through this class, uh, I literally had barely sweat. Wow, it was so weird that's like.

07:09 - Speaker 1
I didn't like I was like.

07:11 - Speaker 2
I was like what's happening? Because I had drank. I literally drank a full liter of water before I got into the class. I was hydrated and then, um, yeah, my body just like wasn't, wasn't sweating. So I was like, is that like a detox response that I already, like, cleansed out all the the toxins? So, yeah, really like just interesting it's so, it's so fascinating just observing the body and mind over the course of something like this, because nothing's changing, um, in terms of your inputs, but like your body is experiencing something totally different, totally were you um?

07:44 - Speaker 1
were you consuming electrolytes throughout the course of the week? No, that's crazy.

07:48 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I was. I had a pinch of salt on day two and then I was actually I was having some of the uh, meraki methylene blue too just like a few drops, but other than that I didn't have anything else other than water.

08:03 - Speaker 1
Yeah, cause you're sensitive to anything like if you had cat. I know you were on full water if you had caffeine. I can't even imagine how hard I was in a coffee shop this morning and the smell dude.

08:12
The smell was crazy and I was like if I think if I had a coffee right now, I would just go, I would like lose my mind yes, so I I'm guessing maybe in part um our buddy, pat farrell, who talked about his 14 day fast a couple years ago, might have been some inspiration to you oh, totally, and that was when I broke my three-day fast so I was like when he said he did the 14 one, I was like all

08:34 - Speaker 2
right. So it's totally possible to do a 14-day fast. People have done it before and I just I knew that there was something more at the end of that one and, yeah, I can talk a little bit about kind of the. I knew that there was something more at the end of that one and, yeah, I can talk a little bit about kind of the spiritual things that I was wrestling with, things that were coming up too. But yeah, I just knew that there was more there and I felt like God was kind of nudging me to go for the seven day one. So during the seven day one, I was trying to like really push it with prayer time. So I did the longest prayer that I've ever done.

09:10 - Speaker 1
So just sat.

09:10 - Speaker 2
This is, you know, not crazy long but an hour just in silence and prayer, which is great. That's a long time, yeah, and it was awesome, dude. It flew by um and just like had a lot of um, amazing insights, just a great feeling of gratitude. I feel like the prayers were a lot more like intimate, I don't know, just like there's this weird sense that has have you fasted much beyond a few days.

09:32 - Speaker 1
Most I've ever done is nine. I think it was like 92 hours potentially. Oh sweet yeah.

09:37 - Speaker 2
So I don't know, you just kind of are a little bit more aware of, like your senses when you're depriving yourself of one of your senses.

09:46
So I felt like my antenna was just a little bit more in tune. And then when I got into prayer time, I really didn't. I was just doing kind of like silent prayer where it was just like what does God have for me and felt like there was a lot of deep insights on just kind of abiding in him and like how prayer is just like a way to do a lot of inner work and prayer and fasting is a way to do a lot of inner work and just like stillness, like slowing down and kind of just reducing the noise. These are kind of like thematic with fasting. I feel like fasting is just kind of like stripping away the noise, but like that those are the things that were coming up like fairly like pretty obvious to me. Just, you know, focus, concentration, um, I feel like it was just like almost like a mantra to like bring out of the fast into the next few months is just really being just locked in, super focused on the things that are important and just drop away everything else.

10:44 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's probably tough to put words to just some of those feelings and emotions that you were actually experiencing too. Yeah, but there's a reason why fasting is really an important part of like any religion and spiritual practice because the way that it tunes your, your senses, is just like nothing else, and I think most people they don't even really get the ability to experience that, and sometimes I'm I'm totally guilty of this because we're just constantly in a state of like just always really needing food and drink around us 24 7. Yeah, so you never really get to experience that amazingness of just the body just operating under its own devices, which is really cool.

11:22 - Speaker 2
Yeah, well, one of the things that we've been talking about too just popped into my head as you're talking is doing some sort of like technology fast for a bit, like I feel like that would have even a more profound impact potentially than a food fast.

11:37 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I think for you in particular it would for sure.

11:39 - Speaker 2
Yeah.

11:40 - Speaker 1
Because I have not been perfect with it, but I downloaded this app called Clear Space and there's so many good ones that are out there but with just some of the stuff that we had talked about on the last solo episode, just with me kind of helping to restore my dopamine, with just some of my vices, I really felt like social media was the next big thing and just being cognizant of just how much time I was spending on a day-to-day basis and obviously I've seen this with you, I see with myself of just not even being mindful of you're, not even really just sitting and taking in and thinking, because you're just, you're just swiping.

12:20 - Speaker 2
You know it's just stealing your attention and your time, unfortunately, it just builds this like creative wall, this obstructive wall to so many things that otherwise like so many great thoughts that otherwise could be just like fertile and able to be used for something good. But yeah social media or whatever it is like just phone technologies, just blocking it from happening?

12:41 - Speaker 1
Yeah, Was there? I'm sure this was probably yes, but over the course of the week, did you have any thoughts at all about what it must've been like for Christ when he did the 40 day and 40 night fast?

12:52 - Speaker 2
Dude, it was actually something I was literally just writing about. Cause, yeah for sure, like 40 days, that's in fully. I can't imagine how weak he felt. Dallas, 20 pounds in seven days. Christ must have felt like a like fully emaciated, but I almost feel like that was like his battle. Cry out to Satan to just call him in. Yeah, and let Satan know that, like, even even at my weakest, I will overpower you. Um, through temptation, and like I will be doing that, and cutting out food. Like food will ultimately lead me closer. Like cutting out food will lead me closer to God. I'll be abiding in him and he will be my ultimate power source as I overcome temptation. Uh, from you, so to me. I was just thinking about that and, honestly, I felt this power after day three. The first three days are, I think, where it hurts the most.

13:48
And then it's kind of more like a slow, like I just haven't had these waves of energy swings. So just knowing that you, you know you just have like more steady energy, yeah. But yeah, I was thinking about that a lot, just in terms of what it must have taken to get to 40 days.

14:09
Oh, my gosh, and how reliant he must have felt on God and just being out in nature too during a fast, like what sort of things you must have been thinking about and experiencing, um, and just like how I think fasting to me is the spiritual discipline that does. It's directly communicating with stripping away and, like John 15, where it's, like you know, throwing parts of you that are just not useful into the fire and letting them burn off.

14:43
So like I just I believe that there's just incredible strength on the other side of going through a spiritual practice like that. Like there's tons of spiritual practices, you know reading, scripture, service, et cetera but prayer, but fasting to me is one that it's like really kind of like this rejuvenation process and it calls you to get closer to God and I think that that is just a really incredible experience. If you take if you go into the fast with that that you know seeking out of that relationship.

15:21 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I think it's probably. I mean, it's one of the ultimate examples of just what it really truly means to discipline the flesh.

15:28
Yeah and um yeah, I mean a lot of our, a lot of our show the premise of meat mafia. In a lot of ways, nutrition is discipl, the flesh, but it, um. It is interesting to explore from the lens of you doing it through your own will and how much more likely you probably are to fail if you're just going to rely on yourself, versus something like what you're doing, where it's just like this kind of active obedience and surrender and you're kind of you're giving it to god and you're accepting the fact that really the only way you're going to make it through the seven days or the 14 days or the 40 days is, like, through his strength, not your own. Yeah, totally.

16:02 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it has me thinking about something I was thinking about, you know, a few days ago. It's just like we're created in the image of God. So, you know, an analogy would be like we're if there's a tree and that tree represents God. We're like the shadow of the tree.

16:17
Like if that tree didn't exist, then the image of the shadow wouldn't be there. So there's likeness, but we've been, through sin, cast out of that image. So I feel like through this process of, or this discipline of, fasting, there's this sanctification that happens where you start to seek out God's will. In these disciplines You're seeking out God's will, so your will is slowly diminished and diluted out over time. Obviously, we have, you know, god gave us agency and sovereignty, so we will constantly run into, you know, our will, in some capacity.

16:53
But I think, as you allow and let in God's will into your life, you start to just let that overtake and it ultimately just takes over what your will actually really is.

17:03 - Speaker 1
Well said. What do you think is a good entry point to fasting for people? Do you have a framework in terms of amount of time? Caffeine, no caffeine. What do you think would be a good first kind of glance for people to get in from a fasting standpoint?

17:21 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's funny, it's. It's pretty similar to running, I feel like where you just like you don't want to like blow someone up, like blow someone out before they really get to experience like what it really feels like to get into a fast and experience the benefits, like you don't want to want them to hate it right away I would say, start off just doing 16 hour fast for like a week.

17:44
Um, you know, do it like every other day maybe. So it's like intermittent fasting kind of just like a shorter time window for eating, and then, once you feel good on that, I would just keep bumping it up by two hours until you get to 24 hours. And once you've gotten through a 24-hour fast, then I think you can start thinking about it in terms of days, because the first day we're wired to eat we're constantly seeking out food. It's a huge. I think it just feeds our dopamine receptors and it's a social thing, it's part of our social fabric as people.

18:23
we just we like sitting around the table and having food and, um, yeah, I just think like 16 hours is a great starting point and then, once you graduate to 24 hours, then start thinking about all right, I got through that 24 hour period, which usually, like once you get through a night, like that first night is kind of tough, and then that next morning you feel pretty good, um, and if you don't feel pretty good, then you know, I think that it's a sign that you should stick at that 24 hour for a little while, um, and then, yeah, I think like getting to 48 hours is really where the magic happens.

18:59
So anyone who's interested in seeing like the true benefits of fasting, getting to like the 48 hour to 72 hour windows, is like where you're going to want to push it, because I feel like that there's so much wrestling that goes on in the first 24 hours of like just being hungry and then after you kind of get over that, like days two and three are really, uh, fruitful. But I also think like omad, like one meal a day for a little while on, like an animal-based diet, so that you're not if you're battling, I feel like sugar's a bit more. It is more addictive or more palatable for people, so that's like a harder like substance food to come off of. So if you are thinking about doing more longterm fasting, I would get to like more of an animal based carnivore diet. Do that for a while and then start doing one meal a day on an animal based carnivore diet and then start working in like a 24 hour, 48 hour fast every year, every now and and then and then slowly start to extend yourself.

19:59
But I went from I think the longest fast I'd ever done was four days, so I went from four to seven and I didn't really feel any different from day four to day seven. On this fast like I felt like pretty smooth yeah, I mean, 20 pounds is unbelievable dude.

20:14 - Speaker 1
It kind of seemed like crazy yeah, it almost seemed like this was kind of like your bookend, to like repairing yourself after the Chad, like I just got the sense of like over 90 days of doing that workout. You know, 90,000 step ups, all the weight that you were pushing from. From a friend standpoint it almost just it was a lot and I think that it's it's so monotonous, it's probably not good for your body over a long-term time horizon. Yeah, and I feel like the like the path that you've been on the last two months has almost been like almost repairing yourself in some ways and getting back to to to yourself, but also kind of like ascending to a new level at the same time.

20:55 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I just recently had this realization and desire to push it to the extreme, but also have a yang to that yin. So like if I'm going to be pushing it as hard as I was with a Chad or any other workouts, I just want to make sure I'm doing the restorative stuff. So I kind of came off the gas completely with a chad and then started just doing hot yoga consistently and pull-ups and kind of just body weight stuff and just have been feeling so good that's been a great reminder that hitting like slowing down and actually just getting into a state of being restorative and wanting to fuel and perform from a place of rest is huge.

21:39
Um, yeah, like yeah, I just I love the idea of a fast just being something that you can incorporate on a weekly or monthly basis, something that kind of just simplifies things, gets you back to baseline. You know, I know there's um ancient texts talking about what the first century disciples were doing from a fasting standpoint, and they were oftentimes fasting one to two times per week. So for me I'm like that's totally doable and I think on days where I'm seeking rest, like that's, it makes sense to do that.

22:14 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I'm curious how it's going to rewire your relationship with food. Yeah, yeah.

22:22 - Speaker 2
Maybe that's a good cue to crack into one of these maui nui venison sticks. Do you want one? Um, you crush, all right, yeah, dude, I've literally never been so excited to eat anything in my life, so 168 hours yeah 168 hours, no food, seven day fast.

22:35
This venison stick has liver and heart, so one of the reasons I wanted to eat this was because it has the organ meats in it. So I was just like I really just want to eat, like the most nutrient-dense foods I could possibly eat. And the fact that this stick has heart and liver in it, plus it's like this wild game this is literally wild venison, yes like is there anything else on the planet that I could possibly eat that would be equal to this?

23:01 - Speaker 1
so, um dude, this thing has 55 calories in it yeah, the calorie to protein ratio is crazy because it's 55 calories, 10 grams of protein. Right, with all those nutrients in it too. First bite of food after a seven day fast podcast is over dude, that's the most flavorful thing I've ever put in my mouth. I'm serious, yeah I mean your, your senses are probably just dancing, totally whack yeah totally out of whack.

23:35 - Speaker 2
Yeah yeah, you crying. That's actually crazy. I felt like I put like a gusher in my mouth.

23:42 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, it's such a powerful ancestral food to break your fast with.

23:49 - Speaker 2
It doesn't even taste like there's any heart or liver in there either.

23:52 - Speaker 1
Yeah, that's incredible. Their formulation is so good. So that was the peppered one that you had.

23:56 - Speaker 2
Yeah, and this is the peppered one.

23:58 - Speaker 1
Their original one is incredible too. There's a little bit of brown sugar in it. It's got a nice little sweetness and it's just all that wild-caught game in Maui.

24:06 - Speaker 2
It's the hottest bone broth I've ever drank.

24:09 - Speaker 1
Is that the Maui Nui bone broth too?

24:15 - Speaker 2
No, this is Ch shirt. Tail Creek Cool yeah, that's awesome. I mean bone broth and heart and liver and venison. You're doing well, dude. You're doing well, that's unbelievable, that's awesome, man.

24:26 - Speaker 1
Yeah, you're. I mean your dopamine is probably going to be. I mean, think about the dopamine, like how just tethered emotionally and physically we are to food and I think it was really for me and I think, think you'll agree with this. It was really Case Bradford. I think with that he started doing some of the best content around fasting. In my opinion he had like a really practical perspective on it and just what the what you allow the body to do when you pull some of these inputs like constantly digesting food out of the equation. And so you think about people that you know constantly digesting food out of the equation, and so you think about people that you know have autoimmune issues or just anything with an excess of inflammation, what the body can do and how it can repair itself just by you know not having it combat the powers of digesting food.

25:09 - Speaker 2
It's pretty amazing to think about Dude without I think I tracked the least important metric of this whole thing. Like I think, weight is not significant to track, even though obviously it's important for a lot of people. My body went through a total healing process to seven days these last seven days like, yeah, 100. I don't know, have you ever felt like in a deep low inflammation state?

25:36 - Speaker 1
where I don't have a lot of inflammation you obviously have like going from inflammation to no low or no inflammation 100 like it's the best it's.

25:45 - Speaker 2
It's so powerful and I didn't even think I was all that inflamed but I think just letting my body kind of repair itself. This is like beautiful piece of divine technology that knows exactly where to go and you know it will send out different things, different things to heal different different organs. Like I was reading something about how, like the proteins and in most organs are like fully um, like mostly like fully repaired after, like they start to get fully repaired after like day three. So there's any like protein cells that are dying. It's like those after day three they're like fully repaired. So I'm just thinking, like what else is happening in the body during that process that is bringing healing in and inviting healing in?

26:29 - Speaker 1
yeah and um, you know it's like you. You get all those benefits because you were willing to push through those days where I'm sure there were some potentially some tempting moments of like dang. It would be so nice to like enjoy this meal, or you see someone having a steak or whatever. You just get really hungry and then, because you like were able to discipline the flesh, it's like you get all these incredible benefits on the other side of that.

26:50 - Speaker 2
Yeah, definitely, yeah, the social element is tough. Like we went to a steak dinner, so there was a steak dinner on last wednesday, so I was like day two of the fest like peak hunger. I was still like coming out of, like wanting food, and then after that I was like all right, this is going to be easy, because if I didn't need any steak that night and then saturday we went to proud mary's here in Austin oh dude.

27:17
With all you guys, so bad Literally my favorite breakfast spot. I was just sitting there drinking sparkling water, but yeah, there's something to that as well, Like saying no in those instances. It trains that no receptor as well, which I love. Yeah, you're just disciplining yourself, being obedient to just like what's right for you. You know what you've committed to.

27:41
If you've committed to something, just being disciplined to that and knowing that you know you've decided to go seven days, so make sure you get to the other side of that. Yeah, I think that that that Just exercising that muscle too is so huge.

27:53 - Speaker 1
Such an understated part of the fast Dude there's such a confidence that comes from, I'm just going to smoke this whole stuff, keep smoking them, knowing what the body wants and then not giving into it. There's just this like spiritual confidence that permeates into everything else that you do on the other end of that Dying to self is.

28:13 - Speaker 2
It can be plugged into basically every religious sect that's ever existed, yeah, and it also touches on like what new age spiritualists talk about, like ego death and things like that.

28:26
But ultimately, dying to self is a practice of ego death over a long period of time. You know where you see people. I think I, you know some people use these drugs that are now becoming more popular in the form of psychedelics to heal trauma and things like that deep trauma and like I see a use case for that. I also see, like what spiritual discipline can do in people's lives in terms of healing things and coming closer to God, and can do in people's lives in terms of healing things and coming closer to God. So I think the more that we're able to deny our flesh over daily process really getting practice in that there's healing and just being able to let go and not have everything be just like a reward mechanism for your own needs and desires and all the things that we as people kind of pursue and put on pedestals you really just have to put yourself at like your lowest state, yeah.

29:21 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a pretty amazing thing, isn't it? When you strip away your vices, you actually realize that a lot of times, the answers of what you're looking for are within Dude.

29:30 - Speaker 2
The answers to what you're looking for are within and like just, it's kind of like a little bit of not nothingness, but just like stillness, peace, yeah, um, yeah, that was something that I felt a lot. It's just there's so much peace and not having to, not being tethered to like such a huge portion of kind of my life and all of our lives, which is, you know, the next meal and, um, there's just like this really still feeling, yeah, of getting a little bit more in tune and a little bit more aware, which, yeah, I think I think you know I'm excited to see how it carries forward into new things. You know that, just seven days, I'm sure there'll be a lot more reflections, as I, you know, think about it more and pround it more.

30:17
But, just that feeling of really wanting to be rooted in God's word and just the disciplines that will ultimately continue to refine my spirit and my will to what God's will is. That, to me, is a very clear picture in my head of what I want to be doing over the next 12 months and the rest of my life, so constantly working on these disciplines and I think about it a lot honestly like these disciplines are things that I could have started 10 years ago.

30:49
Where would I have been if I was at 20? And I feel like we've talked about this a lot on the podcast, but it's just like kind of missed opportunities in terms of, like what God has been calling you into.

31:00
And ultimately God has a plan for you and everyone. But just the feeling of these disciplines are what make not even necessarily looking for fruit, but just looking to be closer to God. And we're like what does that mean? I'm just so curious. We talked about our buddy Cole the other day and how close he was to God when he was serving in Myanmar and just what he was willing to sacrifice at that point of being over there and that like really stood out to me. I was like highlighted in my brain. I'm like there's just more depth to this relationship. Yeah, and I'm sure through like seasons of life, like getting married and having kids, and going deeper into the expansion of what life really is creating more life I'll just see and realize that there's so much more to these disciplines and I think just having that foundation and building that foundation, building into that foundation, I just feel like I'm still in that period and hopefully I'll always still be in that period of wanting to build into that foundation, just make it as strong as possible.

32:15 - Speaker 1
Yeah, when you're speaking, you're actually kind of making me think about, um, the greek orthodox church in the united states and um there's a. There are a couple really good orthodox priests on youtube. One of them is like what is it, uh?

32:31
moses father moses. But then there's like it's like something nectar films and it's um the Orthodox priest, the father. He's been on Tucker Carlson's podcast before, oh wow, but he talked about non-denominational Christianity versus Orthodoxy and how there's actually a lot of non-denominational christian churches cater more towards women than to men and men actually kind of are part of this like very feminized experience, where he thinks that why there are a lot of men that are gravitating towards orthodoxy right now is because his argument was that the orthodox church challenges and pushes men more and calls them to fast, and so I don't know what the mechanics are, because I've only been to an Orthodox Mass once in my entire life, but I thought it was an interesting argument that I wanted to dig a little bit deeper into.

33:25
And even if you're not Orthodox, just like I think what you're doing is a great example of like how do I continue to discipline my own flesh and challenge myself and push myself, not from an ego perspective, but just that I want to give more of myself to God.

33:40 - Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know enough about the Orthodox church, but I get the impression that it's a lot more um centered around maybe some tones of, like the legalistic law of the old Testament.

33:52 - Speaker 1
And.

33:53 - Speaker 2
I think there's a hundred percent merit and, like I think the law was, is essential in the full story arc of who Jesus Christ is and what he actually came on this earth to do.

34:07
And I think that Jesus actually takes fasting further, where you know the the Old Testament is talking about, you know all the things that you need to do in order to kind of earn your way into receiving what God has for you, whereas New Testament is obviously grace-based and Christ.

34:25
There's nothing you need to do other than give yourself to Christ and pronounce to the world that Christ is Lord. But he also has a new standard of living that goes actually further. But I do think that there's probably a tendency, not being like a theologian or like a pastor or anything like that, but just observing the church in the US, most of the non-denominational churches are much more emotionally wound than purely speaking to the discipline, purely speaking to the word. In some ways, and I do think that you know if you're looking at the New Testament, it's not like this yoga teacher barista version of Christ, like he's actually asking you to go beyond the law without really asking you to serve the law, like the way he talks about fasting is that he wants you to fast and not do it for the praise of anyone else.

35:26
So, no one else should know that you're fasting. So, like I think the old Testament, it was much more about kind of um, you know doing the practice, but not really acknowledging the fact that you know there's a posture to how you do the practice. That's really important and missed if you're not fully aligned with God. And so what Jesus teaches us in that is that our heart posture is really truly important in terms of how we do the discipline. So the discipline is very important, but then you need to marry that with what Jesus is calling us to in terms of the standard and posture in doing it.

36:07
So if I were to fast and just be like you know, talking about it the whole time or complaining about it, it's like dude, that's like a that there's no spiritual progress or spiritual insights happening, as you're just being the person who's talking about it and wanting just wanting other people to praise you for doing it, whereas the silent person fasting is experiencing a whole new way of conversing with God. Yes, you know, no one else is knowing that you're going through this experience. Jesus says you know, put oil on your forehead and act as if you're totally fine, which is, I mean, I think, just an amazing shift in perspective.

36:43 - Speaker 1
Yeah, talk about a way to just develop like the ultimate form of mind control. I mean, I'm not just saying this because we're recording. I literally didn't know that you were engaged in a seven-day fast until we were at Proud Mary's and you didn't order. And I was like, why aren't you ordering? And you had mentioned the fact that you were fasting, which?

36:59
is like pretty inspiring and motivational to me because it's just I'm actually going to do this challenge for 21 days where you're not allowed to. I think it's like you're not allowed to criticize or be negative.

37:15 - Speaker 2
Dude, I was so pumped when you sent that to me.

37:19 - Speaker 1
I love that idea so much, Sorry, complain not criticize, Complain criticize or be negative, and that was a Tim Ferriss blog.

37:27
It was a Tim Ferriss blog for November. Yeah, he was offering a couple different 30-day challenges and one was no alcohol plus no complaining, and it was. It was derived from a book, and so you basically put up the the guy sells a purple wristband and then when you complain, you're supposed to keep the wristband on for awareness, cause in the beginning you're going to just complain and not realize you're complaining, and then when you complain, you pull the wristband from one wrist to another one. So we'll see, dude, because I've just that's been. One of the next things for me is just having full ownership over the tongue.

38:04 - Speaker 2
We should do one for cussing too.

38:06 - Speaker 1
Yeah, so that's what I was going to do as part of it as well.

38:09 - Speaker 2
Yeah, just like bake that in.

38:11 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I was going to do like unnecessary negativity, criticism, like without some type of action to take to, without a solution, and then just complaining. But I've already dude even in like the couple hours since I've started it, which sounds so crazy.

38:27 - Speaker 2
it's just gotten the gears churning in my brain in a different way, just like allowing a little bit of awareness into your brain, just to like have have a lifeguard there just sitting there keeping watch of you being negative. Yes, just being able to catch yourself.

38:42 - Speaker 1
Even if you say it, it's like, oh man, like I got to stop that, even just acknowledging it is huge yeah about, like I think you'd mentioned something around the discipline of Christ and almost like the bastardization of Christ in the in the U S church and how it's. It's very easy to view him almost through this, like pacifist lens. And so there's amazing. There's some amazing books that we've read, you know wild at heart, beautiful, outlaw, like some incredible books that talk about like the true, almost savage nature of christ, and I think there's probably not a better way to understand who christ actually was than like getting your hands dirty in the scripture yeah and um cole said that one time he was getting his quiet time with the lord and he got hit with the word fillet and he was like fillet, like a steak or what?

39:41
And so we started doing some research on fillet and I guess fillet is a specific type of whip that the Roman soldiers used back in that day. And so what they would do is they would take these, these sheep bones, and they would like attach it to the end of the whip and then they would like dip it in some type of like an acid or tonic or something like that, and so they would whip you and then the sheep bones would like latch into your skin and then tear your skin out. And they said that the average person could take like eight to nine lashings of the filet before they would die. And then Christ took 39 lashings the day that he was crucified die. And then Christ took 39 lashings the day that he was crucified.

40:21
And so my whole point saying that is I think we almost forget how brutal the crucifixion actually was and the pain and the sacrifice that he tolerated in with you know, undertook on behalf of us and our grace, that we don't really deserve but we get. And I just think sometimes that's. It's just, I don't. I couldn't think of anything more powerful. Just to just kind of remind yourself in the back of your mind when you you know you want to complain, or you want to play God in your own life, or you're unable to discipline your own flesh, or you know you want to eat porn or, sorry, watch, watch, watch porn and eat junk food and I don't know. I just think remembrance of that sacrifice is like a catalyst to everything that you do. It's just probably the most powerful thing, dude.

41:04 - Speaker 2
I think just having an image of Christ on the cross in your head and truly trying to understand what that sacrifice actually looked like, the pain that he went through and the pain that he bore for us, like the modern idea of strength, is much more projecting strength and christ and really projected internal strength, like his ability to handle 39 lashings and like, yeah, the, the pain that he felt through that, yes, yeah, that should continually shape your perspective of just like what we're called into and what, what our, what our um understanding of strength really looks like. You know, like people do want to make Christ out to seem like this uh, yoga teacher peaceful person he was. He was very peaceful, One of the things that people described being with Christ. You know the people who were with Christ.

42:15
There was just this peace you know, and I think that if you've been around anybody who's really walking with the spirit, they're just peaceful people, they give it out, like it's just in their nature to give it out, and I think, the more that you experience that you just are shifted to a place of this person you know only has this side, but there's all these faces of christ. I mean, he's the encapsulation of man and or god in man's form yeah perfection. You know.

42:51
He walked into the temple and flipped tables yes and yelled at hypocrites and his anger was directed towards people in authority generally being hypocrites, towards people who were broken, poor, and his love was cast out over everyone. But that love is like I would say. Love is actually, you know, immutable, like you could use. You could say anger is love in that instance. So if somebody in authority is being hypocritical or um being like not not handling their authority the way that they should, um being angry at that is actually showing them love, like holding them accountable, whereas someone poor who's broken comes to you looking for healing, giving them peace and love is love Giving them?

43:43 - Speaker 1
healing is love.

43:44 - Speaker 2
So, like I just think you know, in all these instances you're looking at Jesus, the faces of Jesus being representative of love, cast out over different scenarios through different human experiences which you know, I, I think, like jesus was shrewd as a snake, they say um, like he.

44:08
He had to like combat against his enemies with a certain level of, uh he like he had to be twice as witty and smart as very evil people and very evil spirits. You know, like being able to outsmart people who are actively asking you questions to get you to say things that will get you persecuted and killed. Yes, because people are thinking that you're heretic. Yep, you know he's so wise that when people would come up to him and ask him questions, as you know, like should we pay taxes to Caesar and Christ, is able to spin that on its head and get them kind of trapped in their own misunderstanding of religion or their religious beliefs. Yeah, so I just think that the more you study, the more you kind of look at his life, the more dynamic you see him. It's just this way of casting love out into all these different areas.

45:07 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I think you just realize that he's the most disciplined and obedient man that's ever existed and ever will exist too yeah like, like you're saying, the miracles that he performed, raising people from the dead and then realizing that, just to fulfill the prophecy, that he, even though he could easily like perform a miracle and get out of the crucifix, like he could easily have avoided that entire situation, he still had to confront it head on. To fulfill the prophecy Totally, yeah, like, think about that, knowing that you actually have the ability to get out of it and could avoid the most brutal death imaginable, and then still confronting that because, like, that is your duty and your obligation yeah, peter, coming to him and trying to, you know, convince him that you know he doesn't need to go and die like there's, just like he knew he knows his, his destiny yes from the beginning of the story you know, know, yeah, and I think that's it's such an amazing way of use, like using Jesus's story to become our story.

46:13 - Speaker 2
It's like what's our calling where? Where are we supposed to do work in this world with that same spirit? You know like how are we supposed to go like?

46:27
I think being a christian is calling us to do deep work, like we are supposed to work in a way that is representative of his heart, so like we're supposed to be doing things that are really, really hard yes you know if your work is, if not, if your work is easy, but like if your work isn't calling you into some level of like dying to self and doing it for God's righteousness, like I think that it's a wake up call. I know I wasn't a practicing Christian at the time but like when I was working my previous job, I didn't have that Like why am I doing this? But now it's like so clear.

47:09 - Speaker 1
Yeah.

47:09 - Speaker 2
And even if it's unclear on some days which like it's never, you know, the North star is always there. It's like you, and I really want to participate in making this country a healthier place but, also just making the people in our lives and people who are coming into contact with the brands that we build. Yes, we just want to make them realize that there's this exceptional life and this exceptional unlock on the other side of that. Their spirit will be raised. They'll be able to invest more energy into the things that matter.

47:39
But like that's not, that's not always clear every single day you know, but it it's persistently there and I know that like what my life's mission looks like, and I feel like having found that it's really cool to just like equate it to our like Christ had a mission. Christ came here on this planet with a mission, so like how can I make my mission, how can I continue to elevate my mission to be more aligned with, just like those principles and qualities of Jesus?

48:07 - Speaker 1
Yeah, like he had it very clearly defined through the prophecy Dude, and it's like you don't necessarily need a prophecy to like think long and hard about what is your purpose, and maybe that purpose and that mission is going to change over time, but it should be something huge and it should be something meaningful and it should be something, I think, just centered around just like sowing really good seeds and making disciples.

48:30
And I also just think that I think one of the biggest issues, at least for men, is just kind of like this purpose, this pursuit of just like almost like happiness, and then hedonism in some ways, and I think that happiness actually isn't guaranteed, nor is it actually important.

48:47
Like our buddy nolan talks about this, like a lot of these great men that you look up to whether it was lincoln, teddy roosevelt, winston churchill like a lot of these men were extremely depressive, um, and had manic mood swings and like some of the most crippling blackness you can imagine, and they would just continue to press on and like pick up their cross and bear it, um, and I think, I think if you get happiness, that's amazing, I think there is a pathway to get it, but it's not the main focus of your life. I think if you pursue purpose and you pursue that obedience, um happiness is like an amazing byproduct. But it's only you only get that from doing these really difficult things, which I think sounds really sexy, over two microphones. And it's only you only get that from doing these really difficult things, which I think sounds really sexy, over two microphones. And it's a lot more difficult in practice, brutal, than it sounds yeah, happiness is like, I just don't think it's.

49:39 - Speaker 2
It's something you shouldn't cast your aim at, happiness if you want to be happy. You know, like I think you just end up doing a lot of short time preference, self-serving things.

49:54 - Speaker 1
Yes.

49:56 - Speaker 2
And, ultimately, the richest form of happiness is coming in the form of building relationships and serving others, and memories that feed you different experiences of life, even, yes, things that in the moment I was like. This is terrible. This is like like dude, I was thinking about us running our 100k in august of 2022 the other day and no part of me was happy at all during that race and you know, two years later I was thinking about it and I was laughing.

50:33
My I was laughing like crazy because I was just thinking about you and me, like turning that corner and seeing the finish line when we were done, like about to finish the race I was like there was no better feeling than knowing that I literally thought that one of us might have quit during one of the previous laps. But knowing that we didn't, yeah, and getting to that finish line I was just laughing about you know, it made me happy. But like doing that race at the time didn't make me happy at all.

50:58 - Speaker 1
Yes.

50:59 - Speaker 2
But weird example. But I just, you know, I feel like chasing happiness in general is just, it's a trap, it's a total trap. It just I think it lends itself into people worshiping mana, which is just like the god of money, god of possessions, and ultimately, at the end of the day, like those possessions end up owning you and where, like real joy, like there's a clear difference, delineation between joy and happiness. It's like I think joy is like a much more of a part of a characteristic of someone's personality and happiness is like more of an emotion. Yeah, like joy. I can think of 20 people that when I think of joy, like they pop to mind, that when I think of joy, like they pop to mind, but happiness is really, you know, more or less just like, um, it's like a weather pattern of of the human emotions, like it's in and out, totally Um. So I really think like it's kind of just a by-product of just doing the right things, focusing on serving others.

52:00 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I think there's this like general theme of I'm guessing the listener probably can, can, can like kind of taste the flavor of this when they're listening to us.

52:07
Recording is just, I think we're both just on this, this in this phase of life of just continuing to strip away more and more layers of the onion and just try and get to the, the core and the root of, like the most authentic version of Harry and the most authentic version of Brett.

52:22
And what does that actually look like? If you, you know, kind of throw all the excuses out of the window and you'd be as obedient and disciplined as possible, like what comes from the other side of that, not for the sake of your own ego, but just for the sake of being like a really good servant. Because I think that we just have, we're just programmed with so much potential, like I think if people actually understood the things that they were capable of, they would almost be afraid of of what we could end up doing. Um, but it's like doing these, these, these things, like we're talking about on this podcast, like what you just did for the last seven days, where it's not going to be easy at all, but it's just so worthwhile and now you know the next, everything you're going to experience, the other other, other end of this fast is just a testament to uh, to your obedience, you know, and the strength that you you're drawing from from God.

53:15 - Speaker 2
Totally. Um, like everything I'm going to experience on the other side of the fast is, you know, the benefit of delayed gratification and being able to put stuff off into the future in order to see the fruits of it later on. But ultimately, I think doing it for that is not necessarily the ultimate pursuit. It's the pursuit is fasting to develop more closeness and intimacy with God and then, if there's something there, there's something there, but it's still like the highest aim is closeness with God.

53:48 - Speaker 1
Yeah yeah. There's kind of two ends of the coin of what we're talking about, especially in our space, where there's like a ton of physical benefits that it's very easy to like put a microscope to that and overly focus on that. And then there's this spiritual aspect, which is far more important, and what you're saying is, I think, what modern media is teaching you is that it's actually like if you get a physical benefit, that's just you're fortunate, but it's really the, the closeness um to God.

54:17 - Speaker 2
Absolutely.

54:17 - Speaker 1
That's the primary reason why you pursued it. And the 20 pounds on the scale, the, the inflammation, the inability to sweat when you're at the yoga class. It's like flexibility, this looseness that you feel.

54:28
That's all just a unintended, incredible benefit yeah, that's not the sole focus, yeah, so brother, good for you, man, seriously, I'm super proud of you and um just a very different type of challenge and I I've definitely noticed the, the changes in you. It's like I feel like you're operating just much more intentional and focused and actually like you're. You're operating very controlled, but it's also making you kind of like quick in terms of your follow-up, and that's why I love this podcast is just being able to authentically document a lot of these things yeah, I think that's where the show is really gravitating towards is just authentically documenting and you, the listener, going on the journey with us together.

55:09 - Speaker 2
Totally. I think it'd be exciting to you know if you're listening to this podcast and are looking for challenges, like I think it's in our nature you and me, our friendship. The core of it is just pursuing hard things, going after life in a way where we're inviting in challenge and wanting to be people who are doing things that are ultimately building us up and growing us. So, if you're a listener of the show and a fan of the show you listen regularly like we would love to hear from you in terms of how we can help you along the way and challenge you to get involved, go do a fast or start working out more or get more committed to your diet, like those are things that we love getting people involved in and, I think, just creating community around that, just embracing challenges and wanting to be people who are actually going after things in a way where they're, you know, truly challenging themselves.

55:58
Yes, so if you're listening to the show, reach out. We would love to learn about you know the challenges that you're doing. If you've fasted before, um, we'd love to hear from you. But yeah, it's been a great combo, dude.

56:10 - Speaker 1
I appreciate you just wanted to have it Dude. Uh, again congrats and um just really excited for everything, man.

56:16 - Speaker 2
Dude, totally. This Maui Nui beef stick is dude. The first bite was I.

56:20 - Speaker 1
literally I cannot explain to you how I think you got emotional.

56:24 - Speaker 2
The burst of flavor was crazy.

56:26 - Speaker 1
Yeah, are you crying again?

56:29 - Speaker 2
So good.

56:29 - Speaker 1
All right, brother, love you, dude, appreciate you yeah.