Sam Moffett: Conversations with Your Local Rancher | MMP #275
Download MP3Sam, what's happening? Hey. Welcome back to the Me Mafia podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Round 2, brother. Yeah. We're here. 1st episode, we were saying before we hit record, see your episode 122 when we released it, November 15, 2022. So I think we came out to the ranch in October, and that was the first time we got to meet you.
Speaker 3:And so cool just to learn more about your story, get to sit down with you, see the entire ranch, and just get the behind the scenes scope of all the incredible things that we're doing. So It was fun. Yeah. I think that's one of the cool parts. We're we're talking about social media before we hit record, but if you do it the right way, it's like we've made so many amazing friends through, like, Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 2:And
Speaker 3:I know there's definitely a huge downside to it as well, but even, like, relationships like this is a testament to if you do it the right way, there's awesome people out there to connect with.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. You can deliberately connect with people that share your interests and values. You can also get exposed to a lot of garbage. You know?
Speaker 2:Crazy stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Well, what was so cool is once we went out to your farm, sat sat down at your kitchen table, and recorded with you, the next month, we were able to go and do, like, a little bit of a road tour, sat down with Austin Dillon at Counter Culture Farms, sat down with Will Harris at White Oak Pastures
Speaker 3:cool.
Speaker 1:And then drove through in, up to Virginia, went to Poly Face to see Joel Salton. Me. And then we saw doctor Brook Miller, who's another rancher up in Northern Virginia.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's just like, that opened my eyes to just, like, the nature of what's happening in the food system. Like, getting the intimate, reactions and interactions with the farm life. It's just, like, such an incredible experience. I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. That's neat. It does feel like there's a a growing movement. It's felt that way since we started the farm, and it probably was happening long before.
Speaker 2:But I think COVID and everything sort of exacerbated the whole the whole thing. Yeah. And it's given farms you know, people that wanna start farms a better platform to go and do it. You know? Totally.
Speaker 2:Do you
Speaker 3:remember how big the pigs were on Sam's ranch?
Speaker 1:They're massive.
Speaker 2:Too big. They were they were huge.
Speaker 1:They were, like, the the diameter of, like, the trees that were next to them, which are also massive. They were
Speaker 2:bigger than optimal. Yeah.
Speaker 3:They were eyeing up my sneakers. I think I think it would've taken a chomp out of my foot foot if they could. Yeah. I'm like, if these things charging me, there's really nothing I could do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because there
Speaker 3:were, like, 30 or 40 of them, I think. Right?
Speaker 2:At least There was there was a big group there, and we let them get really big. We were I mean, we're still but that was one of our earlier batches of pigs. It was because pork is newer for us. And, yeah, we they got really big. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What sort of new projects have you had going on the past 12 months?
Speaker 3:Well
Speaker 1:have the the cottage. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. We we opened the Airbnb on the farm, the bunkhouse, and that's been cool. And, you know, we've had a lot of customers that order that have our meat shipped to them from Boston, Florida, California, Michigan, Colorado, people will come and, like, take vacation and come stay on the farm, which is so cool. That's so cool.
Speaker 2:And, you know, you're in between Austin and Houston. There's a lot of stuff to do. So but that's been good. And then, of course, local pastures, store in Austin has been, doing really well, and we're working on opening our second store right now in North Lamar, in Austin. And, so that's been consuming a lot of our time.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I mean, the the the vision here is to grow the shipping business and the stores.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Yeah. What you guys are doing at Local Pastures is amazing, and we were telling you we lived in an Airbnb for a few months right after you came on the podcast, which was less than half a mile walk away from Local Pastures. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So we were literally hammering that store every single day because you guys had meat, eggs, raw milk, mother culture yogurt, which is by far the best yogurt I've ever had. Yeah. It's like everything that was on point with our diet, we could just get it half a mile away, and you're our buddy and own the store. It was incredible. But, I mean, I think that that concept is so amazing because even in Austin, you know, there's more ranches here than you know what to do with, but still I I'm always amazed that a lot of people just don't really know where to buy good quality meat.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. So you guys were, like, instead of just having to go to the farmer's market, let's just build you guys a farm store with normal business hours. That way, anytime you want really good regenerative grass finished products, you can just get that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, that was the thinking is what's our biggest problem as a business? Because the farm is a business and, like and I'm the one that has to, like, you know, ruin the party for everybody on the farm. And I'm like, hey. Does that make sense for the business?
Speaker 2:Yeah. But but it is. And the and the big challenge is, like, you can go to a farmer's market once a week or twice a week or, you know, 3 of them or whatever like we do, and that's a huge production. It's a it's, you know, staff. There's it's logistically, it's it's kind of complicated, and it's also, something you don't totally control.
Speaker 2:It can rain, you know, it can fall on a Christmas and you know? And and so the thinking was, like, well, who doesn't like the idea of buying their food from a farm? Almost nobody. Yeah. Who wants to drive an hour and a half to come get their stuff at my farm?
Speaker 2:Almost nobody. Yeah. Who wants to get up and go to a farmer's market in Austin? You know, fortunately, there's a subset of the population that does, but most people don't. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, if we could just put a place where people can get our stuff 7 days a week, you know, we thought, well, I think Austin's the right place to do it. And, fortunately, the community is, you know, overwhelmingly supported it, and and and it's it's been really great. So
Speaker 1:Do you view yourself as directly competing with Whole Foods? Like, how does that kinda come into play? Because, I mean, you you are directly competing with Whole Foods, but the person who's so aware of, like, where their food is coming from really, like, kinda understands the nature of how Whole Foods runs its business and would probably rather support local. So Mhmm. I'm just curious how you think about that.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, certainly, we are especially during the week, we're intercepting grocery dollars that probably would go to Central Market or Whole Foods. Obviously, I'll never put those guys out of business or, hey. You know, we can do this all now. I don't know. But no.
Speaker 1:Speak to you soon.
Speaker 2:I mean, our core customer is a really mindful person that cares about nutrition and quality, and they want the best. They want the best, and and that's it. And I like to joke that, local pastures has all the stuff whole whole foods has minus all the crap you don't need, which is
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? So you've got a little trailer here and a giant store there. There's a lot of stuff you don't need in there.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:In every grocery store. Right? Yeah. But, we're certainly not trying to compete with Whole Foods. The thing is, like, it's it's a novel concept, and I think there's enough room in the marketplace, that I support other farms.
Speaker 2:I want other farms to succeed. I want other stores to succeed. I kind of, like, I kind of live by the abundance mentality that, like, hey. I want us all to be successful. So, yeah, I don't I don't but, yeah, we we certainly, I suppose, do compete for some of those dollars.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm sure there is some light overlap, but if I look at my own food journey, I felt like Whole Foods was kinda phase 1 for me. So when I started kinda playing around with my macronutrients and going more meat based and carnivore, that's where I started sourcing my meat from because I thought that was healthy and it was all, like, US raised and regenerative and stuff. And then the more that I kinda went down the rabbit hole, I remember thinking, like, okay. Well, a lot of this stuff is actually just imported from Brazil but labeled as a product to the USA.
Speaker 3:But there's still some good stuff there, but now but now phase 2 is, like, let me actually go support my local rancher. And I feel like that's probably there probably isn't too much overlap because I think to your point, a lot of the people that are going to local pastures are like, screw these huge companies. I just wanna give it to the ranchers that actually care about and trust that are trying to make me the best possible product that they can.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, like, you know, Whole Foods can't like, these big stores can't source from small farms like like mine. It's inefficient. Our our input costs are way higher than what whoever's producing at scale for Whole Foods costs are. And and so I just think they're 2 totally separate, retail ecosystems, if you will.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? And, fortunately, there's a consumer base that is fired up about, like, if a farm makes their stuff available and reasonably convenient, there's a good chance you're gonna be able to sell your product unless you just suck at producing that product and it's terrible. You know what I mean? And this isn't rocket science. So, yeah, I I you know, it's like, I don't I I certainly wouldn't take issue with Whole Foods for not sourcing all small farm stuff because their pricing would be outrageous because, like, I can't come off my price that much for wholesale.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's just it is what it is. And, hey, it's better it's probably, I think they have what is it? GAF, ratings or whatever, the, animal welfare ratings.
Speaker 2:I think it's a step up from what you're gonna get at your regular old, you know, Brookshire Brothers or whatever, but, you know, it's a separate thing. It's a different thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. How tough are the margins being an independent rancher trying to go into, like, a big retail store? Probably just doesn't make any sense to try and do that. Right?
Speaker 2:No. I mean, when we first when I first started the farm, I had a background in business, and I had been a partner in a start up business. And I'd kind of grown a business and and knew what went into that, you know, fundamentally. And so my thinking was, I'm not gonna be one of these guys just piddling at the farmer's market and waiting for people to show up in my farm and buy a dozen eggs. I'm gonna get in the grocery stores.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna get in the restaurants. I'm gonna produce a lot of this stuff so I can, you know, have a truck running, and and I'm gonna, like, do this in a way that's more efficient. And and I did. And we were running the truck several days a week, and we were selling in had our eggs in Central Market and Wheatsville and all these stores and meats. And and and then I got to the end of our, at the time, biggest year, and it was, like, barely made anything.
Speaker 2:Like, it worked for free all year and had, like, you know, a few $1,000 profit, and realized that I had been wrong. And, like, farms like ours that are not large huge scale, operations have to capture that retail transaction to make sense because even our margins are still low even though we do that. Yeah. So it's it's a it's a lot of fun. And, like, as a business, probably not the greatest business.
Speaker 2:If you're just, like, sitting there with money to invest in a business, what business should I start? Like, go buy, like,
Speaker 3:I
Speaker 2:don't know, an HVAC repair company or something like a farm. But if you wanna have a cool lifestyle and do something that's meaningful to you and raise your kids in this environment and etcetera etcetera, awesome. And that's and that's what I wake up every day so stoked, for that I get to do what I'm doing, whether it's fixing machines, troubleshooting, you know, some broken refrigeration unit, or, you know, making a a grazing, pasture management plan for the year or or, you know, a forage plan or whatever. I love all of it. You know?
Speaker 1:How cool has it been able to see your kids grow up in that environment too? Just on the farm must be so fun.
Speaker 2:Dude, yeah. That that's really neat. And, you know, like, from the get go, one really important thing to us was that the kids had a mindfulness about their food, how it came to be on their plate, where it came from, what that means. And, you know, from an early age, our kids were involved in, like, butchering a Thanksgiving turkey that that we had raised or some chickens and, you know, and and animals sometimes die in the farm when you don't want them to. They get sick and die or what have you, and they they they grew up seeing that.
Speaker 2:And my son, now 7, you know, just shot his first deer this this season, and, you know, and and, and a lot of prep work went into that leading up to it, practicing target target, you know, time on the range and, learning where to shoot the deer, and and then we skinned it and butchered it together. And to me, that's, like, one of the most magical experiences that I and I feel so fortunate. So it's like, as a business, the farm's not great in terms of giving me a ton of money, but it gives me those experiences. Right? Like, you and which is awesome.
Speaker 2:So yeah. So raising the kids in the farm has been a great experience. And both of them, I mean, the other day, I was watching them. They were out playing, and one of our, workers, our main guy, Carlos, he's awesome. His family lives on the farm too, and he's got a son, and our kids all play together.
Speaker 2:And I was out looking for the kids, and they've got a lot of freedom. And I looked out across the road, and they were out in the pasture where the chickens are, and they were just walking back to the Hay Meadow, with a couple BB guns. And I was just like I was like my initial thought was, oh, I need to go, like, you know, shut this down. And then I was like, you know what? Let him go.
Speaker 2:You know? And, I about an hour later, I went and checked on him, and they're having a blast. But that was a long winded response, but
Speaker 1:it's awesome. Amazing.
Speaker 3:No. It's a great response. And those are the that's the exact reason why you left what you were doing before to to take this risk to to start Shurtail. And it sounds like I think it's so cool how you said I love every part of it, like, even the dirty, nasty stuff that most people wouldn't love. Like, I've been thinking about this a lot of just could you put a price on actually feeling like every single morning feels like a Friday.
Speaker 3:Right? Where I think about so many people that, like, they're like, fuck. I don't wanna do my job Monday. I don't wanna get out of bed versus you. It's like, imagine just actually loving every part of what you do.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's great. This is it's a special thing.
Speaker 2:And and and I I think on that note, I don't think people realize how capable and empowered they really can be in life. You know? There is opportunity out there for everyone. And, and and I run into people that have these self limiting beliefs oftentimes, and, well, it's it's a bummer. But yeah.
Speaker 2:And I I I I part of what I like about having these conversations is it's hopefully inspire people to, like, assess how they're living their life and and, you know, make sure they're just living the way they wanna live, whether that's Lamborghinis and Ferraris and or whatever. I mean, you know, everybody's got their own thing, but, you know, the it'd be such a shame to get to the end of your life and go, oh, man. I just sat in an office and freaking hated every minute of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So That's how Brett and I I think got connected for, like, in the in the most meaningful way. We were, like, taking a walk along the Charles River in Boston, and we're both talking about life. We're both in different situations, kind of feeling like we need we're in transition and needed to get out of certain situations. And we're both like, yeah.
Speaker 1:The last thing that we want is to feel like we left some potential on the table. Exactly. Like, I mean, I think that's for most people that I relate with, they have that same feeling like, I just don't wanna get to the end of the day and feel like there was more for me out there. I could have done more, helped more people. There's just a a certain nature in in, certain types of people where I think, like, that trait is, is present.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Do do you think, for you, are you someone that you that's always kind of been a risk taker or, like, the skill set of being willing to leave this old old life with 2 kids, with a wife, do something that you're kinda, like, chartering to unknown territory starting the ranch a few years ago? Do you think that that's a skill set that can be cultivated in everyone? Do you think that that's something that you've been born with? I'm just I'm curious because I know in our friendship, like, we've talked a lot about risk taking, and, they've been some of the most impactful conversations for me. So I'd love to get your perspective on that.
Speaker 2:Well, I I don't think I mean, I think that's most people's biggest limiting factor is they're afraid of risk and afraid of the possibility of failure. And, you know, unfortunately, if you wanna achieve bigger things in your life and have a higher degree of fulfillment, you gotta be willing to take some risk. You can calculate the risk, but it's gotta be there, because you're not gonna grow if you don't. It's easy to get a job with the state or whatever and just and and and, you know, if your reason for doing that is, well, then I'm gonna have a pension. And and it's like, great.
Speaker 2:But in the meantime, you're gonna lose the best years of your life, so make sure you enjoy it. I I don't think everybody's wired the same way, and and it's kind of it baffles me just because I'm wired the way I'm wired, but I I I wanna smack people sometimes. Yeah. It's like, what are you doing? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I hate to well, stop doing it. Yeah. But, yeah. No. I don't think I don't think everybody's it it's a it's a function of, like, do you want it?
Speaker 2:Because some people just don't want it. Some people are like, no. I like eating Hot Pockets and watching TGIF and playing, World of Warcraft or whatever
Speaker 3:it is.
Speaker 2:You know? And if that's your thing, okay. But, you know, there's more out there. And, you know, like, one thing I've discovered in my own journey, with fitness and the farm and everything else is, like, generally, when you subject yourself to the most discomfort is when the most most growth comes. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And, and that's that's been true for you you realize how capable you are and how free you are and how you know? Yeah. So
Speaker 1:Was there a point where you felt like you overcame your own self limiting beliefs? Because I feel like just based on what you said, like, there was probably a turning point for you where, you know, you had to let go of some things that might have been holding you back.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm always doing that because I we all have, like, these preconceived beliefs about things, And it's it happens on the farm all the time, and and it I I've seen it myself. And and here's an example. Like, I bought a no till planter, okay, for $78100 from a guy in College Station.
Speaker 2:Had it transported to the farm on a truck, and and I started, going through it and to service it before planting season came. And I had this mentor, Mark. He's a rancher, and I we source a lot of our calves from him. And, he he's, you know, he he's a great farmer, great rancher, good guy, and, so I can always call him this stuff. And I was out there trying to pound out a bearing on, one of the the Colter wheels on the planter, and and I just couldn't get it out.
Speaker 2:And and I I'd never I didn't grow up I grew up in the suburbs. I didn't grow up doing this stuff. My dad didn't work on cars. Nothing. Okay?
Speaker 2:I'm YouTube and, like, Home Depot. And and and I call him, and I'm like, I don't know what to do. I can't get there. And he's like, hey. Might just need to hit it harder.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And sure as shit, that's what I needed to do. I was giving up too early. Right? And I see that all the time with people and my kids.
Speaker 2:This is I I I say this to my kids all the time, like, you know, the reason most people fail is because they they they quit trying too soon. Mhmm. And I really believe that. And and so, yeah, man. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's relevant to what you're talking about. But, yeah, I think, you know, I see that in myself. You know? You know, you wanna give up, and you're like, well, maybe if I get a bigger tool and turn it harder. And Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? And so I think the key is to just focus on what you're trying to accomplish and stick it out and, you know, and don't quit. Change course, fine. But
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, our our minds are always kinda, like, reverting to the mean, in some ways, so you kinda have to catch yourself when you're on the those days where it's like, oh, like, I can't, do this or do that. It's like, no. Like, think about all the things that you've done up into this till this point. Like Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Getting the farm going to begin with and starting to open up farm stores in Austin. Like, all those things are just, like, massive badges of honor. Yeah. It's like you can do so much so much with what you have.
Speaker 2:And I I've always found that, like, what successes I've had in life, like, there's a there's a build there's a building period leading up to that where you're you're uncomfortable and you're growing and you're building and you're figuring things out and you're unsure. And then you maybe hit a point where your business starts being successful or you sell a business or whatever it is, and then it's like, awesome. And then all of a sudden, there's it's, like, anti anticlimactic and unfulfilling again. Mhmm. And you wanna go do something else.
Speaker 2:You know? And I feel like I constantly need that. Like, I'm wearing with local pastures, we're in building mode right now. With the farm, we've been in building mode for six and a half years, and we're still it's still in evolution. And I there's times when I wanna bitch to myself about, man, I wanna get this thing running smoother and could do this and hire this person or whatever.
Speaker 2:But the reality is I know that I'm happiest when I'm in growth mode and when I'm uncomfortable and when things are surprising and new and confusing. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 3:And that's a healthy mindset to have too. Right? Because it's like, you know it's actually it's it's a really interesting point. You know, we always try and be transparent with our numbers and the things that we're doing with our audience. So, like, we just ran the numbers for 2023.
Speaker 3:So between the media side of mafia and then Noble, both those businesses did, like, 450 k. So not bad for, like, year 1 in business. Harry and I did not take home much out of that 450 k because there's a lot to improve on. So it's, like, kind of that similar feeling to what you had in year 1 where you're, like, fuck. I'm working.
Speaker 3:I'm doing all this stuff. The business is making money, but we're not really making as much money as we wanna have. Like, dude, you you guys chose to do something difficult to try and monetize a podcast just like trying to monetize a ranch. It's extremely difficult to monetize. Like It's a long game.
Speaker 3:Right? Yeah. Yeah. And having that ownership mentality of, like, you put yourself in the shit, so let's figure this out. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And how proud of yourself are you gonna be when you actually figure out and make it successful? Right. And then to your point, once you do it, then you're gonna wanna reach the next thing too. And I think that's a totally healthy mindset to have.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, like, I I suppose if one day, it won't happen, but let's just just say money was not an object. I don't know. I'd still be going out and, like, trying to climb them out. I'd I'd be doing something Yeah.
Speaker 2:Difficult. You know? You know, makes the beer taste better at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:It really does. It really does. Have you,
Speaker 1:have you noticed that the trend of just people you said this at the beginning of the podcast, the people really caring about their food. Has that stayed consistent, like, since COVID, or has it dropped off a bit?
Speaker 2:I I I think it's grown. It would and maybe I'm gonna have my blinders on because I'm in my little microcosm because I'm around so many people that are so mindful about eating animal based diet and and and Paul Saladino and all these people. But, I feel like there was a big explosion in that conversation post COVID. I feel like it it you know? Or during or post COVID.
Speaker 2:And and I I myself have drunk the Kool Aid and and, you know, eat an animal based diet. And, and so I I feel like it's it's just getting stronger and stronger. At least that's the sense that I get. Mhmm. You know?
Speaker 2:And we've got a tremendous amount of customers from all over that are just incredibly mindful about what they're eating. And and, I mean, I every day, I'm getting phone calls and emails with specific questions about how we treat the animals or how the meat's packed or whatever. And these are people that really it's really important to them to know.
Speaker 3:So Yeah. I mean, even if you look at local pastures to to the point that you're making of how much the movement has grown post COVID, I would think that if you put local pastures in Austin 4 to 5 years ago, it wouldn't have the same demand that it has now where, like, the lines are literally jumping out the door.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I gotta think it would be different.
Speaker 3:I think
Speaker 2:it still would've worked, but Me too. We've we've really surprised at how, how, strongly the community has responded to it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We talk a lot in this show about, you know, the relationship between consumers like us and their and a rancher like you. We talk a lot about, you know, the consumer's obligation to support the rancher and how cool that experience is and the feelings that are associated with that. But what is it like actually being on the flip side of that of actually being the rancher that's providing food for the local community?
Speaker 2:On what sense? Like, Like, what are, you know, what
Speaker 3:are your what are your favorite parts about it? You know, what what's the experience been like over the last few years just getting to connect with more customers and just that mindset of, like, I'm literally the person that's growing the the these nutrient dense foods that's, like, kinda nourishing the community.
Speaker 2:Well, it's really an honor to be doing that and have people choose to source their food from us. So it's I feel kind of a responsibility, you know, of course, to do it the right way and and to help people and, you know, and I like having a connection to my customers. I like that there is a personal component. I mean, I I don't every single transaction, I'm not there for, but, you know, I'm I'm my phone is on the website. Like, I get people call me, you know, and I enjoy that.
Speaker 2:So I I like I like that. Selfishly, I I mean, it's it's awesome that I get to live where I live and be outside and, you know, run my farm. I mean Mhmm. It's it's just fun, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's it's I I really like it. So but, you know, and and I am my core customer. I think I've said that to you before, but it's true. You know? And and I I eat almost exclusively stuff that we produce on the farm.
Speaker 2:So, I think I'm pretty well aligned with, you know, our customer base in that sense. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You, you mentioned the pigs earlier. We were talking about the pigs earlier, but I feel like you're in particular known for the eggs that you you, get to create and Mhmm. And, bring into town. I'm curious. What, what do people need to know about sourcing high quality eggs?
Speaker 1:It's one of these topics. You see free range. You see pasture raise. There's a lot of confusion around it. I still think that people struggle with kinda just understanding the vernacular.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious just to get your take. Like, what's what do people need to know about sourcing eggs?
Speaker 2:Well, my take on I mean, eggs are a commodity in the US. Right? Like, all this stuff has been commoditized. And so all these classifications have been created because, in general, people are buying eggs at the grocery store without any knowledge of who the producer is or how they produce the eggs or whatever. And so you've got eggs, which are almost certainly, you know, hens in a big barn, may or may not be in confinement in individual cages.
Speaker 2:I don't know if they still do that. But, and then you've got free range, which means they're not in cages. They're able to walk around, but they could be crammed into a big barn, probably are. And, oh, that's cage free. And then free range, I think they're supposed to have access to some outdoor, space that they may or may not ever use because it's it's like a little door on the edge of the barn that may not be very accessible or attractive.
Speaker 2:And then you've got, pasture raised, which, you know, indicates that the birds are living on pasture. Now all pasture raised eggs are not created equal, are not produced equally and for for very good reason because producing eggs on pasture is quite inefficient. And, you know, efficiency is important for any business. Because we are not a commodity brand that's on a grocery store shelf where people are blindly purchasing our eggs, they maybe know our brand name or whatever, but they don't know us. We might be 100 miles away, right, if in that scenario.
Speaker 2:Because we are selling our eggs direct and we can get the price we need to get for our eggs, we can handle the inefficiencies of predation, of, you know, just exposure to the the the elements, which is usually not a problem, to, the inefficiencies of, like, feeding birds in that setting, hand collecting all these eggs.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:A lot of farms have conveyor systems where it's like the eggs get conveyed, washed, and packed without a human touching them. You know? And that's not us. Like, every egg has been touched. Yes.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, from a macronutrient standpoint, I don't know that there's much difference, between, some large scale pasture raised or free range egg and my egg. And I'm not a nutritionist, so I can't go into detail on on on that. But I know that, fundamentally, and Will Harris talked about this on the Joe Rogan podcast, which is a really it was the first one he did, I think. It's a really great conversation, but he talks about, like, what animal do you wanna be eating. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, he he made the comparison of, like, a feedlot calf to a grass finished calf in his program. And, like, if you left the feedlot calf in that program for a long period of time, like, it would die. Mhmm. Like, probably wouldn't make it another year. Right?
Speaker 2:Because it's you're creating this metabolically unhealthy animal. And whereas on the grass on a true grass finishing program, that animal would certainly, barring some sort of surprise, catastrophe, or or freak illness, would live its entire lifespan, 20 year lifespan. You know? Yeah. And and so same thing with eggs.
Speaker 2:You know? Birds that are not exposed to the sunshine and able to forage on bugs and seeds and, all the natural things that these birds are supposed to be, consuming, are just not gonna be as healthy as birds that are crammed inside
Speaker 1:a
Speaker 2:climate controlled barn. Now they might have a more comfortable life in some ways. Right? Because when it's cold out, our birds are cold. When it's hot out, our birds are hot.
Speaker 2:But, you know, they have shade and they have shelter and they have food and water and they're not, like, getting rained on. But Yeah. But they are more exposed to the elements, and so they don't produce as well as birds that are in a perfectly balanced environment. You know? But, you know, so but I I personally would would rather eat meat or eggs from an animal that's living a natural life and not something that's, you know, been designed, for someone for efficiency over, you know, for quantity over quality.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a really important nuance because that's something Harry and I talk a lot about of, like you know, I'm trying to figure out how to phrase this, but, you know, it's it's chicken, meat, etcetera. It's like we're trying to say not to demonize individual ingredients, demonize the way that it's actually harvested and raised. Just like, you know, hey. All bread is bad.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like, I don't
Speaker 3:you know, local sourdough compared to wonder bread, that's those are 2 totally different products. Yeah. Type of chicken that you're talking about versus some industrial broiler, whatever, totally different product too.
Speaker 2:So it's
Speaker 3:like we kinda gotta get out of this habit of just being like, oh, this product's bad. This product's good versus, like, how's the animal actually raised and harvested, etcetera.
Speaker 2:Well and then there's the conversation. This comes up a lot. It's like, are you organic? Is everything you give your animals organic? And some people for some people, the gold standard is is everything certified organic.
Speaker 2:And and to your point, like, I buy alfalfa during a drought. It's not certified organic. It's possible those fields have been sprayed before. I don't know. That's not a big part of our program, but, like, it's there.
Speaker 2:But I can guarantee you, some calf stuck in a feedlot eating organic, grains and getting unhealthy, and living in an unhealthy environment, is, certainly not superior to what we're producing on our farm.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a good point. It's like we've fallen in love with the label versus actually understanding what's really healthy. And what's being healthy is actually knowing Sam on a first name basis, being able to go out to the ranch, see how everything is done, and then make your choice if you wanna buy from him or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and knowing that I mean, we are turning over every stone we can to do the best job we can, and we're transparent about what we do. You know what I mean? You know, but it's but, you know, you get into situations where it's like, you know, you get in a drought and you can't just let your cows get skinny and eat, you know, dried up dirt grass. Like, they gotta have nutrition.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's funny. I I I I was talking to my wife about this, and I was like, it's like if you were super organic mom and you went to Whole Foods and everything your kids ate was organic, this and that, and and vetted by you and keto, whatever the label you wanna put on there, And then let's say there was some natural disaster, and the only thing available to you was Taco Bell. Mhmm. What are you gonna do? Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're gonna feed your kids the last of the kale chips and let them suffer, or are you gonna get them a damn chimichanga?
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're gonna feed them. And that's the thing. When when we go into a drought, I'm not gonna let my cattle starve. I'm gonna buy the alfalfa even though it's not certified organic. And and, you know, we gotta do that.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 1:Yeah. I feel like we've lost so much context around this topic, obviously, over the past, like, several decades as more and more people have grown detached from knowing their farmer, even just, like, being a farmer. Like, I think it was early 1900. Like, there was, I forgot the actual status, but, you know, it's like we we've basically shrunken the amount of farmers, and now we rely on bigger farmers these days. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And people don't really understand the actual processes behind the scene. The same thing goes for, like, cooking and nutrition. Like, now we're seeing, like, Uber Eats has popped up, and people are just relying on convenience. And now people don't really know how to prepare meals for themselves, understanding the basics of just nutrition and and fueling yourself. So it's it's just, like, blows my mind how much context and common knowledge has been lost over the past several decades.
Speaker 2:Well yeah. And you think about, like for people that live in cities, the idea of there being a farmer is like this distant concept. Like, I know they're out there. Yeah. I don't know any of them, and I don't know what you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Whereas that it used to be a profession that people aspire to do. It used to be a profession that people might say, yeah. I'm gonna save up and buy 50 acres and start a farm and and build a house and make a life. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now it's like, you know I mean, I well, now it I mean, there's a bit of a of a change. Right? Because there is this this sort of culture of not culture. What am I trying to say? Like, there's there's this growing group of people that have an interest in in in food and where it comes from, and then there's a subset of those people that actually wanna go out and become producers themselves.
Speaker 2:Maybe more so because it seems cool than because it's a great business or whatever. But, I mean, you know but but, yeah, it used to be something people aspire to do. It was a noble profession, and now it's just some distant thing that somebody else does. Yeah. You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Outside of water and air, food is the most essential thing you could possibly put in your body. Yeah. And so it it is such a noble thing to think that we've kinda lost that is it's sad, but I also think that we can pull back from the brink because of the stories that you're telling and the demand that you see at local pastures. I will tell you this.
Speaker 3:There's probably a lot of logistics that would go into this, but if you guys did a seed oil free, like, badass meal prep thing where I could pick up meals there, I would order from that place every single day. So just something to think about.
Speaker 2:Plant the seeds. So no seed oils? No. Did you say double seed oil? Double double canola for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's interesting.
Speaker 1:One of one of my favorite things that we talk about on the show is, like, if you have a a good relationship with your your farmer, you'll have a bad relationship with your doctor. Yeah. You know? And and just this whole idea that, like, real farm fresh foods can actually be healing. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And the components that go into that are, like, you're fueling yourself with foods that don't have pesticides and all these other, food additives and things that are really, like, disrupting your metabolism and causing chronic inflammation and chronic disease. And you get to understand what real foods actually are, which I think many, many people have kinda grown detached from.
Speaker 2:It's opened my my eyes. I mean, the whole reason I started eating carnivore, animal based, whatever you wanna call it, was because and I think we talked about this, I think, last time we got together is because I I have periodontal, like, gum disease issues where I just had this inflammation of the gums and pocketing. And, ultimately, if I didn't do something that was gonna result in, like, you know, my gum recessions and then tooth loss. You know? That's what I mean, not right away, but it's a it's a progressive thing.
Speaker 2:And, and I'd read I heard about Jordan Peterson saying that he had corrected his gum disease eating carnivore and, what's Ken Berry. He's awesome. He had a dentist on. I forgot the guy's name who talked about it as well.
Speaker 1:Kevin Stock, maybe?
Speaker 2:It could have been. I don't remember. But and my information's gone. I I go to the periodontist now, and they're like, and I'm like, yeah. I've been doing this diet, and they're like, well, yeah.
Speaker 2:You they're like, yeah. Yeah. That's cool, but there's no data. And I'm like, I don't need data, man. I it's it's pretty clear to me.
Speaker 3:You tell me my yeah. You tell me my gums are basically healed. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So and and so that's cool. So, yeah, I don't know, man. I mean, you guys have had similar experiences. Right? You you had,
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. I had colitis for 6 years, man. I was the only patient that my doctor got off any type of medication, you know, out of the thousands of patients that he's worked with. So to your point, I'm like, I don't need a peer reviewed study to tell me whether meat is good or not for me. I just know what works for me.
Speaker 3:Right. We even had this guy on, Jason Karp. He found a hue dark chocolate. Mhmm. You might have seen their their bars before.
Speaker 3:They're they're big in Whole Foods, but, he's an Austin guy. He was in the hedge fund space and he was living such a toxic lifestyle because he was working so hard and not prioritizing his health that he developed this, degenerative eye disease where they told him he was gonna go blind by the time he was 25 years old. This is, like, early 2000. He started getting real in a paleo, autoimmunity, etcetera, changes diet, eyes are completely fine, and that's what led him to launch all, like, the whole string of healthy businesses that he's launched too. So it's like but we've kinda we went from learning from these, like, anecdotal experiences to now I think a lot of people are leaning in because, like, alright.
Speaker 3:Well, if Sam can heal from this, why don't I try the same thing and heal heal myself too?
Speaker 2:Yeah. But it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable, but it's worth it. You gotta have some real honest conversation with yourself about Yeah. Like, what's more important to you, having your vices or, you know, trying to live the healthiest life you can.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 1:Totally. Have you, have you heard anything about mRNA vaccines and livestock? I I just I feel like I saw it a few months ago and haven't really seen it pop back up. But Yeah. It's something that got a lot of it garnered a lot of attention when it was first kinda circulating the Internet, and people are like, oh, I don't think it's true.
Speaker 1:But I'm curious if you did any research on that or, have any thoughts on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We're not using any mRNA vaccines on the farm nor do we plan to. My understanding is so there is, most cattle in the US get a 8 or 9 way, vaccine for a series of respiratory viruses that are common among cattle. Respiratory viruses are a big menace for, big cattle producers, especially if you got cattle in close quarters where the air quality is not good and stuff. And there is gonna be, I believe, an mRNA component added to that, and that's gonna be a requirement for certain beef programs.
Speaker 2:That's not to say a guy like me is required to use it. That I think if you're selling your beef, your commodity beef into certain programs, that it's it it may be required. So I you know, a lot of people have called me about this. And and when this first news first came out many months ago, I was getting a lot of calls about it. People are really concerned.
Speaker 2:And but but, you know, it's important to just, like, let people know this isn't to my knowledge, there's no government conspiracy to go force all farmers to give this to their animals. If you are a big commodity rancher and you're selling truckloads of cattle, into a some beef program, then if you wanna sell into that program, it may be required. But I I'm not aware of, like, you know, you gotta do it or else you can't be a rancher anymore. You know, I don't think that's true. So
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was, like, the early summer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think it was New Zealand or maybe a couple other countries or something like that, but I don't think it was US related. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've seen it trickle over, and I don't know if it was just, like, clickbait stuff or not. I I've looked into it, and I'm like, it doesn't seem like this is picking up a bunch of steam. I saw a bunch of farmers actually kind of saying, like like, we're not gonna do this. We're not gonna do this, but I don't think this is actually something that's being talked about. So
Speaker 2:No. I don't think it's I think it's I think it's something that people grab ahold of and you know? But, you know, it's out there. And, yeah, I think they are gonna put mRNA in in, cattle vaccines. They may have already done it with some swine vaccines or whatever.
Speaker 2:But, I mean, if you're buying through guys like me, I I don't and you're asking and you're vetting that product, I don't think you're gonna run into a problem. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's no requirement now that you have to I don't have to vaccinate anything.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So nobody comes to me like, did you vaccinate? No. I mean and we do vaccinate for tetanus and, black leg, which is a bacteria. It it's got a fancier name, Clostridium something that lives in the soil that just will kill your cattle. Not all the time, but when it does, it it really does.
Speaker 2:And, and then we do a series of respiratory virus vaccines, but they're not containing mRNA. You know? So what
Speaker 3:are some other good questions you think to ask your local rancher just if you're trying to vet this person and figure out if that's who you wanna source food from?
Speaker 2:Well, I you know, I think a lot about the grass fed claim because as a true as a grass fed, grass finished beef producer, it I I'm aware acutely of the challenges of doing that, of really doing that. And so my main thing would be like, hey. How are you feeding your cattle? Oh, they're on grass. Okay.
Speaker 2:What like, what? Like, dry hay. Bullshit. You're not growing calves on on, you know, last year's dry hay. What are your cattle eating?
Speaker 2:You know? And, I I've heard of people getting a grass fed ration from a feed mill that is, you know, a sunflower meal, cottonseed, maybe some other stuff blended in that maybe isn't grain, but it's not really maybe not consistent with And so and and I'm not even, like, demonizing that. I'm just saying, like, you need to know. Mhmm. You know, if and and and and you need to know, but you also need to understand that, like, your ideals may not always be achievable.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You
Speaker 2:know, there's a there there are when there are droughts and I've got 90 calves on my place I've gotta feed, I'm gonna buy beet pulp and alfalfa, and I'm gonna mix that with whatever hay I can find in our big feed mixer. We chop that stuff up, and I might even put a little cane molasses in there because it's rich in electrolytes and helps them with the heat. And that's what we do in in that scenario. Right? Because you gotta do something.
Speaker 2:And and I've I've talked to other producers that are are like, oh, I got this grass fed. They said it's grass fed approved. And I'm like, what what do you mean? Like, I don't they don't wanna know. Right?
Speaker 2:And so I just think it's important that, like, you know, that you ask questions if if you really, really, really care, because and direct questions, because you may not get direct answers if you don't get direct ask direct questions. You know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it's a great honest answer, and I think something that we we've talked about this before. It's something that drives Harry and I crazy or some of these health influencers that are armchair quarterbacks that have probably never really spent time in a ranch before that are just like, oh, if it's not grass finished and regenerative, it's absolute bullshit without having any understanding of Yeah. Droughts or just these conditions that pop up in the life of a rancher where you, like, literally cannot feed your cattle grass for the entirety of their life.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so it's like, well, what do I do? Like, face financial ruin and go get a job at Starbucks, or do I figure out a way to push through this tough time and and and, you know, and, you know, I think it's important for customers to understand all that stuff. But, you know, transparency, between the farmer and the consumer is important, and and that's something we value. And I try to, you know, on Instagram, talk about you know, on the website, like, here's what we how we do what we do.
Speaker 2:And I get people to call me like, hey. Do you vaccinate your cattle? Yeah. K. Bye.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know? Oh, fine. You know? I don't wanna, you know, lie to anybody, but, yeah, it's it's tough.
Speaker 2:And, like, you know, whether you're a generative farmer or not, like, a lot of farming is really pretty. When the when the rain works out and the weather works out and you got grass, and it's a beautiful thing to see ruminants eating grass, and that's what we're doing. This year is a great year. We started grazing our spring grass, our winter spring grass, our oats December 1st, which is the earliest we've ever started grazing. Normally, we're feeding into into February.
Speaker 2:And so I've got a bunch of hay sitting there that we made and and this abundance of grass. It's wonderful. And in all likelihood, my cattle will graze. We won't have to start feeding them again until the fall. Nice.
Speaker 2:Which should be tremendous, right, to have, like, 8 months of straight grazing in where in where we are. Whereas in parts of New Zealand or, you know, parts of, the Pacific Northwest or whatever, you can you can graze year round in some places.
Speaker 1:What's your favorite animal on the farm?
Speaker 2:Well, 2 of my dogs are my favorite. Oh, yeah. Nina and Bodie. But no. I mean, I I enjoy the cattle.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I enjoy the beef, and and I enjoy the agronomy. I I like the soil science. I like planting, and and, you know, I haven't catalog this data in a way that's easy to digest, but I I have soil test data and I'm compiling over the years so I can track how our soil has evolved over the years. But, yeah, the beef is my favorite.
Speaker 2:I mean, the cattle are my favorite.
Speaker 1:The The agronomy aspect is so interesting. I'm sure you've probably seen the soil quality change and new species of animals come on to the landscape that you manage and and new grasses and things like that. How how long did you you started 5 years from now?
Speaker 2:6a half.
Speaker 1:What sort of things have you seen change
Speaker 2:Well
Speaker 1:because of that?
Speaker 2:So it's interesting because, in terms of the vegetation, we this our place was leased by a rancher before, so there was cows on it. And like a lot of these guys, if there was a blade of grass, they let their cow go eat it. And so there wasn't really a management process in place that was very intensive. And the reason for that is because that takes time and work, and those guys have leased ranches all over, and they it's just not conducive for them. And they don't have to do it.
Speaker 2:They can get by without doing it. Although, they could stock more cattle on the place if they did. But we started managing, our grazing so that we would let pastures rest. And immediately, we saw just this explosion of growth out of these pastures that I think I think we had been there for a full year before we did this. So we'd seen, like, what spring and winter on a good wet year looked like with cattle all over the place where this guy still had the leases on the pastures.
Speaker 2:And then versus when we were managing it and and we had rain, and we saw, you know, all kinds of volunteer clovers and ryegrass and, summer grasses and stuff explode all over the farm. So that was it was very clear to me at that moment that if you manage the property and you use your resources in a way that's responsible and controlled, that it's really good for the pastor. It's also time consuming. It is intensive. Right?
Speaker 2:And that's the argument why a lot of people don't do it. What's interesting about the the grasses on our farm is that, you know, the days of, like, the old native bluestem being the prominent grass on on the farm are gone. I mean, there are farms that have pretty good stands of the native bluestem prairie grasses that the buffalo ate, but so many exotic grass species. And I'm gonna kinda get geek out on you. But there's so many exotic grass species have been introduced over the last 150 years, And it was all people trying to solve this problem, like, oh, this grass can do this.
Speaker 2:Oh, this grass from Asia can do this. And so your Bermudas and Dallas grass and Johnson grass and, you know, all these, you know, Bahia grass, all these different grasses were introduced by people that thought they were, like, you know, just God's gift to agriculture. And and so all these exotic grass species have really taken over, and we have no choice but to embrace that. Like, there's only way to get rid of it all is to just herbicide everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is not gonna do that. And so so that's interesting. But but, yeah, in terms of the structure in the soil and, you know, we're we're rotating, 3 different species across the pastures, the pigs, the chickens, and and the cows. And, of course, the pigs aren't everywhere, and the chickens aren't everywhere, but the cows are everywhere. And, and it's just it's great to see year after year when the the laying hens move off their section of the pasture and we go in and no till seed and then the cattle go into graze, how it comes back thicker and thicker.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And even just compared to, like, the land on the other side of the fence, you know, which is the same land. It just hasn't been managed in the same way. Right. You know?
Speaker 2:It's cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It would be cool to see a side by side comparison of your land versus, like, the neighbor's land too.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I just don't wanna make enemies with my neighbors.
Speaker 3:I know. Yeah. You don't wanna you don't want that.
Speaker 2:I see that sometimes. I'm like, does your neighbor check-in? Yeah. I see Rome Ranch has done that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm like, do you know that person? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was
Speaker 3:it a what was the experience like, you know, six and a half years ago when you processed your first batch of animals? Was that a tough thing to do or or kinda like the emotions associated with that process? Because I don't think we talked about that the first time you came on the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That was that was interesting. So yeah, man. Listen. Like I said, I grew up in the suburbs.
Speaker 2:My dad didn't hunt. I didn't hunt. I didn't I fished a little. I mean, I just didn't have any exposure to that. And so it was important to us that when we started doing this, that we were a part of every step, at least you know?
Speaker 2:And so for the first several slaughters, I was there for it. And it's a I mean, you know, it's it's it's killing an animal is killing an animal. It's like there's parts of it that are just not, not awesome, you know, in terms of how it makes you feel. But, you know, it's you cannot argue with the fact that we eat meat, and we've eaten meat. And it's it's it's appropriate for our species.
Speaker 2:And, and so it leads me to to ask the question, well, what's wrong here? Is there something wrong with that happening, or is there something wrong with the way I feel about it? And is that a result of this life I've lived where food is a commodity and a steak is just something on the shelf? And that's I believe, yes. I believe that is the the reason why people have these, and I believe that is the reason why veganism has become this huge thing, is because people have grown up where animals have names and they live they sleep on your couch.
Speaker 2:And, and then, you know, suddenly you're 16 and you have this realization that some cow died for you to eat that hamburger, and and they just don't know how to process that. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Especially being the northeast, there was just so much outsourcing of that entire process.
Speaker 3:Like, you know, even when I first went carnivore, I was still kind of just thinking about meat as this, you know, this commodity that's wrapped in a plastic wrapper that I just go pick up and I buy for this price, and I don't really think about where it comes from. I'm just trying to get these nutrients from it. And then you start you know, we start to do the show and go out to the ranches and hear about your perspective. And it's like, I mean, death is death is unfortunately this this kind of amoral thing where it's like if you wanna be able to eat these evolutionarily appropriate foods, it's like the animal unfortunately does have to die, but it also creates a shitload of life as part of that
Speaker 2:process too. It's true. And, but, yeah, I went to the butcher, and was there for several of the initial slaughters, and and occasionally, I'm still still am. And, you know, it's all done with respect. It's it's this is our food source.
Speaker 2:We're not here to, like, have fun killing stuff, but it's necessary. But it but it was it was an interesting transition. It was an interesting experience, and, you know, it was important to us that at least one of us went and and did that. So Yeah. And then since then, I've I mean, I didn't grow up a hunter, and, you know, I've I've become a hunter since living on the farm.
Speaker 2:And, my son and I on on a board you know, if we're bored on a Sunday, we'll go shoot squirrels and grill them. I mean Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know? Your son's definitely living his best life
Speaker 2:out there. He's
Speaker 1:just playing baseball and shooting
Speaker 2:squirrels. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every day, he's like, dad, can we go squirrel hunt? Can we go fishing?
Speaker 2:Whatever. And and, it's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's unreal. Yeah. What goes through your head when you see some of those clips of, like, vegans dumping milk out in the middle of the grocery store?
Speaker 2:God. I think just stupid entitled people that their parents didn't raise them right.
Speaker 1:It's just such a waste.
Speaker 2:I mean, hey. You wanna be a vegan? Be a vegan. Be whatever you want. I mean but, you know, you can't expect the world to see things through your lens.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? We can't expect that, and no one no one should expect that. We all have to have some mutual respect. I think that's what's lacking in those situations.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Yeah. The wastefulness is just something that I can't get over. It's like in the food system in general, we waste so much. I think it's, like, something like 50% of the food goes to waste, but something like that where someone's put a lot of time into actually raising the animals and going through the process of getting the milk high quality and putting it on the shelf.
Speaker 1:It's like it's so disrespectful.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, man, that's like sort of a chronic underlying problem in our society anymore. Right? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And everybody feels like they've got a a platform and they've got enough people, you know, razzing them on, to think that they're justified and pushing their agenda on people. What whatever it is. Like, I, you know, I could name 10 issues right now. But, you know, one thing we just can't lose is a sense of mutual respect and accountability for our actions.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's really just a mind virus, what they're doing, that entire methodology. I think there was was this in Europe? Were were they vegan activists that were, like what were they throwing onto those paintings at the museum? Did you see that?
Speaker 1:I saw that. I forget. It was, like, maybe molasses or something like that. I mean, they were just ruining,
Speaker 2:like, art.
Speaker 3:They were destroying, like, this high quality art. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think I saw that.
Speaker 3:I think they were vegans. Right? There was I know. It was definitely in that in that sense.
Speaker 1:Like gluing themselves to the paintings too? Potentially. I don't know why. Yeah. Oh, like, what
Speaker 2:what do you Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, what do you you need to have something else going on in your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think the truth will win out in the end, honestly. I just think that if we just keep promoting conversations like this and eating the right foods, like, you just fundamentally transform as a person that even if you're someone in your family or or a friend or something might not believe in that diet, I think they'll notice the changes in you and gravitate towards you and wanna learn.
Speaker 3:Like, I've noticed that with a number of my friends because carnivore in 2019 was not nearly as mainstream as it is now. So when I was, like, promoting that I was doing this, people thought I was crazy, and now I have so many friends that are buying from ranchers and drinking raw milk. And Mhmm. I think you just have to show up as your own proof of work. And I think the fact everything we're talking about is just science and it's truth, and I like to believe that that'll win out in the end.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, you know, like, I hey. Everybody's free to do their own thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's hard. Right? Because it's like you can give someone the ultimate blueprint diet plan with everything laid out, meal shopping plan, meal ideas, how much you should eat, workout splits, whatever.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But if they don't have that internal motivation to really wanna turn the switch on and do something, you're just you're really just spinning your wheels.
Speaker 2:And some level of grit too. Yeah. You gotta be willing to accept discomfort in doing stuff you don't wanna do, and it's not fun sometimes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What what do most people not understand about, like, farmers' lifestyle? Like, outside of just the work, like, is there anything else that sticks out to you just in terms of, like, the the lifestyle difference that you've experienced from going from suburban lifestyle working in the city to moving out to the farm?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I I think people have a picture in their mind of what a farm is. You know? This bucolic, beautiful place where you're with animals and just living the dream. I hear that a lot. Living the dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You live and, yeah, it's pretty great. But I see it a lot when, I people will wanna come, like, volunteer on the farm or we've had it in the past. You know, people come work on the farm, and then it's like this wake up call of like, oh, shit. This is what not what I thought it was.
Speaker 2:And so the like, I've said this before. Like, the beauty part is very real and very much there, but there's another part of it that, you know, we don't go out of our way to put on Instagram when you're having a shitty day. You're like, you know, like, oh, shit. Let me post this. Hold on a second.
Speaker 2:You know? Let me stop cussing at this thing and and
Speaker 1:This inanimate object. Post. You know?
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it's also, I found when we moved out to, the farm that our interactions with people in our community were more genuine. People aren't so guarded. You know? Everybody nobody's trying to be anything they're not. And so there's I feel like there's less ego involved in my interactions with people, which is pretty neat.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah. I could pontificate more on that, but I yeah.
Speaker 1:I like that one. I I it that would seem to make sense to me that, like, you know, no one's trying to pretend like they're somebody else. They're just Mhmm. They don't have, expectations of kind of this, like, urban lifestyle of always kind of, like, comparing cars, comparing Yeah. What you got going on.
Speaker 1:Maybe you guys are comparing cows or something like that.
Speaker 2:But Doesn't matter what you think of me or I think of you. Right? Yeah. You know? And and, a lot of people put way too much emphasis on that in their lives, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, you must be walking, like, 20,000 steps a day.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I would be curious. Casio, man. I Fuck. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We gotta put an ankle bracelet on you or something. Yeah. I
Speaker 2:don't know, but I I try to hit it and get a good workout at the end of every day.
Speaker 3:Nice. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, you know, talking about pushing yourself and I mean, it's like even I get you know, you get into some workout routine, and it starts getting comfortable. And you keep doing it, and you're not seeing results. And you're like, I'm being a lazy bitch. Yeah. Oh, this doesn't suck at all, and that's the problem.
Speaker 2:And it needs to suck. And damn it. You know? And I went out the other day, and it was, like 2 days ago, and it was 31 outside. And I went out to the shop.
Speaker 2:No you know, it's open doors on the shop. We have hay and tools and stuff in there, and I have my workout stuff. And my son, he likes to get his BB gun and shoot targets while I work out, and he hangs out with me. He'll do a few reps. You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like, I don't wanna fucking do this, man. I do not wanna do this, but I'm gonna crank it out. Whatever it was, a 100 burpees, pull ups, you know, do the whole thing.
Speaker 2:And at the end, you feel amazing, but Yeah. Just, even in, like, halfway through, I'm just like, ah, I don't want them to.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Getting getting started is the hardest part. That's why we've been trying to you know, Harry's better at it than I am, but the the 5 AM workouts, man, they just supercharge you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then when you push it off, like, if we're like, oh, we'll go at 6 o'clock, you're so much more likely to skip that workout or not workout. It's hard. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's so I know I could do that. I I you know? But having to get I used having to get kids off to school is my excuse.
Speaker 2:I've always been a nighttime workout guy.
Speaker 3:Really? You like the nighttime?
Speaker 2:Like, you know, 5 o'clock. Usually, when I hit it, and, I get interrupted a lot because I'm, like, in the middle of the farm. So the guys are like, hey. Hey. This tractor's broken or and and or they just don't understand that I'm just trying to focus and but, but it's also cool because my kids hang around.
Speaker 2:They play, and they see me doing that. So my hope is, like, I'm setting that example that, you know, they see their mom and dad do you know, work hard and be focused and then also make time to get a workout and then make time to go watch their favorite show with them and and talk about their day or whatever. And, anyway
Speaker 1:What was, what was the experience like going on Nick Bare's podcast? Did you see, like, a noticeable uptake in kind of awareness around Shurtail and what you guys are doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's funny, on those because podcasts have such a long life that that, the indications of of the effects of, having a conversation that maybe gets a lot of exposure is trickles in over time, that was my experience. But, yeah, I mean, that was cool because he's got such a big audience. And so we, we definitely saw increased interest from that. I mean, we've seen that from having our conversation before with you guys, and that's why I like podcasting.
Speaker 2:It's a it's good way to have these meaningful conversations. And, and, again, like, I want I want so much to inspire people to eat right, make good decisions in their life, but also know, like, the you know, what we're doing, what we've done with leaving our life and becoming farmers, you could do that too. Maybe not to become a farmer, but, you know, go make this thing you wanna make or start your podcast. Yeah. Whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Like, it's all out there. Go take it. You know? Alright. But, yeah, I think Nick Bare is a great guy, and that was a cool experience.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And he's a SureTale customer too, which
Speaker 2:is pretty damn cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Twice so Jack, they say, the yolks that you guys sell.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No. That was neat.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They have a I I guess he moved, but I I mean, I don't know if he still comes back in Austin or not for for that, but they had a really legit studio there. It was
Speaker 3:They're legit.
Speaker 2:It it was, yeah. He he had a I don't know if you put this in the thing or not, but he like, leading up to it, I got an email from some guy and and not some guy. I just can't remember his name. Nice guy. And he was like, what's your, drink order?
Speaker 2:And he, like, what's your drink preferences? And I was Like, what is this? Yeah. Triple macchiato. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We got we got a step back.
Speaker 3:We just got raw milk glasses. That's what we that's what we give out.
Speaker 2:Hey. I'll take it.
Speaker 3:But, I mean, you had an amazing career in marketing and advertising. I'm sure it's amazing for you to think about just this concept of podcasting to your point where meaningful conversation is a lot of times the best form of marketing ever because someone's listened to a 2 hour podcast with you or you're just authentically telling your story. You're talking about all the things that you've learned. There's so many things that you do right. And then if I'm an Afford customer, I'm like, well, damn.
Speaker 3:I wanna go out of my way to order Sam's products too because I wanna support the guy and the product sound amazing. It's just it's cool how you can launch businesses off of having meaningful conversation.
Speaker 2:Well, it's cool. It's a great way to communicate what you're doing, And I can be long winded when I get excited about things. These are topics I like talking about, and I think a lot about them. And so when I get asked questions, I tend to, like, you know, some and and I see people sometimes at farmers markets, you know, people would ask me questions, and I'd start answering it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and I could see them check out and kinda be like, okay. I just I don't really care how you get the yolks orange. I I gotta go. Thank you. Bye.
Speaker 2:You know? Whatever it is. And, so in this setting, people can watch it and then, just fast forward past the the rambles if they need to. But but yeah. No.
Speaker 2:It's cool.
Speaker 1:That's the good thing about social media is you can just clip up all your ramblings and just have it on one page and be like, you know, just go check-in. So I've got videos up there for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I wonder if
Speaker 3:you guys could do some type of a cool, like, local pastures event where you get some really cool speakers or ranchers or something like that and have a bunch of the customers and members just come network and listen to some really cool information because those customers wanna learn more about the orange and the yolks for sure. That would be cool to collab on. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That would be really neat. I've actually thought about doing a springtime event at the farm at Shirntale and doing, like we have, you know, these country roads out there and setting up a course to do, like, a rock or run or whatever
Speaker 3:Dude.
Speaker 2:And and then have it but then have, like, a meal served and, you know, speakers and, music, whatever. I don't know. And have, like, a farm kind of thing.
Speaker 3:That would be amazing.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:We are in. I know. We're sowing. That there would be we could get, like, a school bus of people to go out there for that. Dude.
Speaker 1:Like, totally. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it'd be a lot of fun. I mean, I that's one thing I wanna do more of now that we have gotten the farm running at a place that's more sustainable from a lifestyle standpoint where I can leave the farm and come in and do this with you guys and know that everything's still getting taken care of because we've got an awesome team, is do more community building and also allow people more access to the farm. It's not something we've had available much just because of how crazy our life is and how much time it takes to give a farm tour and stuff. You know? So but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That'd be a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:We're gonna have to percolate on that.
Speaker 1:I think do that.
Speaker 2:I think so. I think we've got some
Speaker 3:mafia shurtail collabs. Yeah. Well, at a minimum, we can fill up a we we know so many people that would love to go to that. Yeah. I think a rock would be cool.
Speaker 1:Squash. Right? I mean, where we're recording right now, these guys do rocks every weekend. Really?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They would love that.
Speaker 2:They would love started doing it.
Speaker 1:You're a
Speaker 2:fan? Yeah. I'm a fan. Yeah. I I, I got this meat pack for packing out meat, and I, like, strap, plates to it.
Speaker 2:I love that. Just go down the road 4, 5 miles and because I I don't run anymore. My knees started bugging me a while back, and so I was like, okay. I'm not gonna run. So I got an assault bike on the farm, and I do burpees, and that's kinda my cardio.
Speaker 2:And I it gets so bored of just sitting on that thing. And so and I love just going out and and take my dogs with me. And so, yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:That's where all the good ideas happen. It's out on, like, a walker or a rock. And Yeah. A rock, you can still throw a podcast in, but you're getting in a good sweat too. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, the the assault bike is brutal. It's a devil's tricycle.
Speaker 2:Well, it is what you make it. Right? Yeah. And so I can I can do a sustained 40 minute? Just put on Netflix and get up to 160, 165 heart rate and or you can get on there and just kill yourself too.
Speaker 2:You know?
Speaker 1:So Yeah. That thing can either be a minute in your head. Right. Like, gassed. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's I I don't know what it is. I mean, it's just like a full body pump, but, yeah, I'm a fan. I'm a fan. It scares me a little bit.
Speaker 1:Like, I see it, and I'm like, I don't wanna get
Speaker 2:in there. Feel about cold plunging.
Speaker 1:We we just did that before the show.
Speaker 2:You did? Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was good.
Speaker 2:I I I only did it once. I did it at Heart and Soil. I I did their podcast, and at their headquarters, they have, you know, the whole shebang. And and, I've been wanting to do it, and they're like, oh, you can't leave without doing a cold plunge. And so I did 2 minutes at 38 degrees in that thing, and it was it sucked.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:But I but, also, I got done, and then I was like, I wanna do that again.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It changes the whole course of your day
Speaker 2:too.
Speaker 3:I feel like you would be a guy that would cold punch every day if you had one.
Speaker 2:I think so. And and I'm like, oh, I've got a walk in freezer. I could freeze ice blocks, and I've got cattle troughs and Yeah. And, but I keep finding reasons not to do it. I've got a swimming pool.
Speaker 2:I should I could just go sit
Speaker 3:in the pool. Right? Jump in the pool after a nice little salt bike workout. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Hey. Don't they say it's better to do the cold cold plunging before your workout? I I think so. This is, like,
Speaker 1:the new thing in the past 12 months where they've, like, people have started to popularize the idea of it. I've done it. I think it's I think it works. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It, like, shocks your nervous system, wakes it up, and, I always feel like I can do more pull ups, hit more push ups after I've hopped in the cold.
Speaker 2:That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun
Speaker 1:to experiment like that. Yeah. Just, like, move some things around, see how different things affect the workouts.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it's fun, man. Yeah. Anyway, like I told you when I came in here, my dream is one day to have have a setup like that on the farm where I just don't have to leave.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Let's make it happen, man. We can do it.
Speaker 1:Let's make
Speaker 3:little sauna cold plunge beef.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I
Speaker 3:mean, I don't think it gets better than that, man. We're
Speaker 1:I think all 3 of us are pretty simple in that sense where it's like, that's pretty much all we need. Yeah. Our families and just a nice little workout setup and some food.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, for me, like, I was thinking about this yesterday, you know, because I was having a day where I was just kinda aimless, and I I got some things done. But, you know, every day you wanna have, like, this 9 hours of just productivity. Oh, I just rocked the shit out. I know.
Speaker 2:I closed this deal. I I I did this thing. Whatever it is. Right? You just that's what we all aim for when we wake up in the morning, but it's just not gonna happen every day.
Speaker 2:And I I find the best way to salvage a shit day is to stop worrying about the work. Go get a really good workout.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Wear yourself out, eat a good meal, and, you know, just call it a day. Yeah. I feel because if I can at least do that, then I still feel good at the end of the day even if it was kind of a frustrating day.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 3:It's such a good point because, like, if you're just if you're in that shithead space and you're trying to force the work, you're not gonna get into a better headspace and you're not gonna do the work. So you might as well do something that you know will at least get you into a a slightly better headspace, but it's probably gonna make you feel like a different person. Yeah. Good meal, good night sleep, and then a whole a whole night sleep, you'll wake up as a different person the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And if it's 11 AM and it's not going great, well, go go crank out a run and then get back at it and maybe you'll be more focused. But if it's 4 o'clock, fuck it.
Speaker 3:Go work.
Speaker 2:Just just go work out. Your day's over.
Speaker 3:I like that. That's how I feel. I like that. Well, brother, it's always amazing to have you on the show. We appreciate you doing this.
Speaker 3:We're so pumped to get connected to you. We love seeing everything you're doing at local pastures, and, we'll be in touch about that rock experience out at the ranch. That's what we need.
Speaker 1:Let's rock.
Speaker 2:I wanna do it. We're
Speaker 3:doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Let's make it happen. Alright. Thanks, Sam. Thank you,
Speaker 2:Sam.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it, man.
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