The Meat Mafia Podcast

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[00:00:00] Um, you know, Again, like a lot of these things were just providential. Like, when we first started doing this, um, I wanted to use xylitol because I wanted a natural sweetener and I wanted something that, you know, at least wasn't associated with anything negative in terms of oral effects.

And so there's a lot of stuff indicating that xylitol is great for your teeth. Um, and then I was trying to figure out why Why these other things were had caused so many problems like why does tobacco cause gum tongue cancer all that? You know people have stated in the past. Oh, you know, there's fiberglass and true or whatever and it's like no probably not I don't I don't I think I think more likely what they're doing is using sodium carbonate.

Yeah, which is is a pH adjuster And this is in all the pouches too. And this is going back to our conversation about like the pH. That you gotta get that, the pH up to get the nicotine to be absorbed. And so, it seems like a good idea, right? Let's up the oral pH with sodium [00:01:00] carbonate, which is like the more alkaline cousin to sodium bicarbonate.

It's not baking soda. It's actually more alkaline. And, generally speaking, it is a great idea. It's super effective. But the problem with that is, is that, When things are too alkaline, they actually cause like a caustic burn. And so, so there's a study called, you know, is sodium carbonate a causative factor for oral lesions?

And, you know, this is, this is a preliminary study, so, you know, we don't know for sure, but what the study found is that there's a, there's some likelihood that sodium carbonate is. is inflaming and irritating the gums because it's causing a caustic burn. This is like if you've ever made, mixed concrete before.

If you get concrete on your skin when it's wet, like the lime in it will burn your skin. So same thing. It's the same concept. Um, you know, it isn't as caustic as lime, but it's still caustic. And then, this is my theory, is that Part of the reason why that's such a popular decision to include that ingredient in nicotine products is you're also inflaming the area Which if you draw [00:02:00] blood to the area, you're gonna enhance the absorption and then it appears nicotine is more addictive the faster It's absorbed.

So the quicker the uptake is again, you know, this is why smoking is wildly addictive Yeah, in addition to other chemicals that are in tobacco and oral fixation. There's a bunch of reasons why smoking is crazy addictive You But anyways, it appears to me that that's part of the justification for including that ingredient is to inflame the gums, draw the blood in, get it to absorb as quickly as possible, and bias the neurochemicals towards the dopamine side.

Yeah. And so the quicker the nicotine is absorbed, it appears that the more dopamine is released. Whereas that slower drip appears to more hit that cholinergic pathway, which is the acetylcholine pathway. One thing I will say to, to what you, to everything you're referencing right now is I do feel like the buzz from Xen, I feel it a lot faster than with you guys.

Like Xen is [00:03:00] like an almost immediate rush. Yeah, yeah. So what's, what's happening with pouches, which is interesting, and they've actually started adding water to the pouches. Interesting. Because, and I think Xen is still dry. I don't use Xen, so I don't know. But the thing with those pouches is nothing is gonna go into solution until your saliva like saturates the pouch.

Yeah. And then. It's just bound up, I believe, in cellulose. And then pretty much it just hits all at once because it's all dumped. And so when you have that rapid release of nicotine, you know, that's the, that's the other reason why they need that pH adjusters just to ensure that you don't have just swollen at all.

So that's, that's part of how it's designed, but yeah, no, it's, you know, we're, we're. We make, make a product that, that doesn't use a pH adjuster, it just uses Xylitol like we talked about. It's, the tablet, for me, they last me about 45 minutes. I know some people salivate more than me and they last me 15 minutes.

Um, but you know, that's, that's a much longer, Uh, delivery time than [00:04:00] Zyn, which is probably, you know, by the time it saturates, it might be a 10 minute delivery. For some people it's even faster than that. The pouch is misleading because people will leave the pouch in for an hour. So you know, we have people complain to us, Oh, your product doesn't, doesn't deliver.

Last long enough. It's like, well, you know, we're, we're trying to make everyone happy because if you make it last too long, then it's never going to hit. And if you make it too short, then it's going to hit too hard. Yeah. So I think we've kind of struck that happy balance. Um, that's one of, one of our things that we had to dial in for sure.

Yeah. So if I, so if I threw in like a six milligram knickknack to do some deep work or whatever, which is what I like to do, how long should it, should I feel the positive effects? Of the nicotine in my system. How long would you say? It obviously depends on tolerance and everything. Like, for you, how long would you feel it for?

Um, I mean, I think, I think for most people, nicotine has a half life of about 45 minutes. You know, that, that can be a little bit longer. You know, we, it just, it's, it's very similar to [00:05:00] caffeine. You have people that have, like, that are really good caffeine metabolizers. And you have some people that are a little bit slower.

Uh, caffeine, on the other hand, though, is, you know, a five to six hour half life. Whereas, nicotine's 45 minutes to two hours. Um, I use the threes. That's, that's my personal preference. Um, I find that the effects of the nicotine I can feel for probably one or two hours. You know, really, really, really one hour is when I'm really feeling it.

Um, you know, if I'm having a really crazy day. I might, I might chain knack a little bit. Yeah, chain knack, I like that. But I don't do that too often. You know, I take breaks too and all that. But, you know, I think we, I think it's one of those things where, you know, nicotine makes you feel good, it is addictive.

You know, I, you know, we could, I think there's a lot of arguments to be made about how addictive it really is. Um, but, you know, yeah, just like anything else, you can't, you don't want to overdo it. Yeah, yeah, I think a part of it is like, you just have to know how you're wired, where, you My [00:06:00] vice has always just been stimulants like primar primarily caffeine And I just love that feeling of just being so locked in in that flow state So like with a product like a knick knack or something or caffeine I find that like from the time like I wake up and I'm ready to go like I want to throw one or two of Them in and just kind of like Do it all day long and it's something that I need to like, I don't think it's for me.

It's not the substance. It's more so like my relationship to it because I just am someone that just loves to be in that like dopamine infused state of just like crushing work. Um, and there's people like Tucker Carlson too, where he literally says from the time he wakes up to the time he goes to bed, he has his in in his mouth throughout the entire day.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people that, you know, they just, they have a nicotine drip. Um, and there's, there could be a lot of reasons for that, you know. I think, um, you know, I have a cousin, for example, and this is pretty anecdotal, but he's got hardcore ADD. Yeah. And so he has Nicknackin, you know 24 7.

Um, so some, for some people that's what it takes and some, [00:07:00] I mean, and those people tend to be just like super metabolizers too. Yeah. And this is part of the reason why we need a lot more research in humans. Yeah. You know, it's like we have, we're starting to get nicotine research outside of the context of smoking, but still most of it is like animal models.

So we definitely need more research in humans. Um, so, so hopefully we'll get there. Um, yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I love the way nicotine makes me feel. Yeah. I think it's awesome. Yeah. But, yeah, it's, it's, I've certainly have overdone it before too. So, it's one of those things. All things in moderation and. You're also learning to appreciate like downtime too because it is, it's also addicting to get into those flow states like for sure, like hitting the afterburners when you really get after it.

Oh my gosh. It is seriously one of the best feelings in the world. It really is. But it's easy to overdo. Yeah where like nothing else matters besides like you just being locked in and doing that work. Especially as a founder too, right? Oh yeah. Where it's like you feel like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders.

When you're having breakthroughs. And you're jamming. Oh, it's the best. Yeah, and it's [00:08:00] just like win after win, like sales call after sales call. Totally. Are you guys just DTC or do you, are you into some like retail stores and gas stations and stuff like that? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Wholesale is definitely a bigger effort because it's, you know, most people haven't heard of us and all that.

We've we've kind of concentrated our efforts that we can make sure we have good support So we're very much in the inland northwest. So if you're in spokane, yeah, we're all over the place there and we're we're uh, Got pretty good Saturation in new york city area. So we've been really, you know, pampering the new york market and you know Just making sure that it's a hit there I think we just got a few stores here in Austin because we were in towns for like, Hey, let's pick up some stores.

Yeah. So, uh, we're, we're coming for it on, on the, on the wholesale side. It's, it's a, it's a bigger effort than, you know, DTC is so easy now. You know, it's, it's plug and play and, you know, it's, it's so cost effective to go direct to consumer. Yeah. It's like, why [00:09:00] not? And, you know, so easy to advertise to, to, you know, exactly, exactly your consumer.

Yeah. And it's great for the consumer too, where it's like, you know, a lot of You're going to the gas station, you're buying like one to two tins at a time, versus like online, I can order a bunch in bulk, it's cheaper that way, I have my supply, and I don't have to just constantly be running from gas station to gas station.

For sure, for sure. Yeah, I mean, you just subscribe and don't think about it. Yeah. It just makes it easy. We might have to do a little drive by sales action to my favorite gas station down the street off Cesar Chavez. It's three, it's three brothers who are immigrants from India and they have like a couple gas stations in town and it's one of those gas stations that just has like an amazing selection of like products, coffee, different types of nicotine pouches, etc.

But they don't carry you guys and I've asked them about you before. So we might have to do a drive by and just just close them on the spot. Let's do it. I'm down Little meat mafia knick knack action. Heck yeah! Yeah So for you, how do you like to? [00:10:00] Like structure like your nicotine usage where like you're getting the best bang for your buck.

You don't feel like you're knack chaining too much Because I that is the thing right? It's like how do I use nicotine to I to achieve that optimal flow state? Totally going back to like the experimentation side of me I like to do experiments and push the limits and kind of find out where my boundaries are.

biohacker at heart Yeah, you are in a lot of ways. Yeah in a lot of ways and so I So, you know, the biggest thing that I always tell people is go slow and listen to your body. Like, not everyone has to do crazy stuff. Like, I think that's the easiest way to do it. Listen to your body, go slow. You know, we don't, I don't think there's research, you know, showing that there's the right amount for anyone.

Um, So, that's what I would say for, for most people. For me, I think it's been fun to mess with. I mean, one of the experiments I just did was, you know, can I use a whole can in a day and then the next day not have any? Mmm. And, and uh, I actually ended up taking like a multi week break after like, [00:11:00] Getting building up my tolerance a ton, and then I just stopped to see what it was like and and I kind of referenced that earlier But it at least for me.

It wasn't it wasn't a big deal at all. I didn't have any withdrawals I felt totally fine. You know, I missed like getting into that flow state as aggressively, which is yeah, you know my anecdotal experience But and this this is yeah The irony was I missed it actually the most when I was like relaxing and socializing You That was, that was kind of funny.

That was when I missed it the most. Other than that, it wasn't really that big of a deal for me. The post meal knick knack is, like, God's privilege, honestly, dude. It's like, sometimes I'll remember, like, I'll be towards the end of the meal, and I'll think, I'll, I'll, I'll remember that I have a knick knack in my pocket.

And I'm like, dude, this is gonna, just throwing that in after a meal for digestion, then I'll take a nice 20 minute walk afterwards. That always helps me digest really optimally too. It's like, it's the best feeling. I call it my after dinner mint. The after dinner [00:12:00] mint. I like that, dude. Yup. Yup. I do the same thing.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, I feel like it, for me, I think it, I think it definitely helps digestion. Or even like, sometimes I'll wake up, and I'll forget that nicotine exists, and then I'll remember that I can throw a nicotine mint in, and I'm like, It literally gets me out of bed some days, which I know isn't good, but I'm just being fully transparent here.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, there's good evidence that, you know, that cholinergic pathway really stimulates the vagus nerve. And so that's, that's like the gut brain access. That's the main nerve that connects your brain to your gut. And so, you know, I think there's decent evidence that nicotine basically emulates acetylcholine in the brain.

And it binds to the same. Nicotinic receptors, which is why they're called nicotinic receptors, and you know, you basically put the, that entire cholinergic pathway into overdrive and that's what appears to happen. Yeah. And so it makes sense. You know, and that's why for a lot of people, you know, they [00:13:00] have their coffee and a cigarette and they go to the bathroom.

Right. Yeah. And so the gut brain access is real. Yeah. I think it's cool though that you're able to give it up for a few weeks cold turkey and you still feel really good and you're firing and then you reintroduce it. And then you get all those amazing benefits from it too. It's like it re hits you like you're having it for the first time.

Yeah, yeah, I, I mean There is indication that people do build tolerance. I've not actually noticed that big of a difference in my tolerance. Like, I found that three milligrams is really good for me. That's where I feel the best. Um, and I have no temptation to go to six. Like, that's like I, for whatever reason, that with my physiology, That's where it feels good, and it's been shockingly consistent.

Like I don't, like I've not observed for myself that much, uh, increase in tolerance, which has been interesting. So even going back and forth, like taking that break, I found that it hit harder maybe one time, but then it was back to normal. Yeah. Because that was kind of interesting, so I, I, I think there [00:14:00] needs to be more research on that front too, like how much tolerance is actually built, because, again, like we just need research outside the context of tobacco.

Yeah. And there's so many other chemicals in tobacco that are affecting your, your neurology, specifically, that, you know, we need separate research, for sure. Yeah. And the nice thing about you guys is that if you do want a little bit of nicotine stimulation, but you're a beginner and you're worried about, like, getting that buzz, that really hard buzz that hits you that everyone talks about, that everyone's afraid of, You can start with a three and then break it in half so it's like 1.

5 milligrams and you just get that nice little like gentle buzz that'll push you into that flow state to do work. My buddy Vance who has uh, the methylene blue company called Meraki, I don't know if you've seen them before, he's a big fan of you guys. And that's what he does is he'll just like break a three in half and then he'll just bang through some work and uh, He's you know, he's helping you guys are helping him like scale a CPG brand, which is very cool.

That is cool. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, we've had a few people ask for a lower dose option, but [00:15:00] I mean with the way we design the product Yeah, it's so easy to snap it, you know, and then you're just getting way more value Yeah, so some point we might add, you know, maybe 1 or something, but for now, yeah, they're pretty easy to break Do you know, uh, you know Kyle Kingsbury?

I don't. So he, um, he was one of like the original guys at Onnit. He fought in the UFC, um, he's big into regenerative agriculture. He's got a big podcast out in Lockhart, Texas, like 30 minutes away, and he's a moose dude. He's like 6'6 fought in the UFC. He has these like I don't know if they're Snus or it's some type of Swedish brand.

It's literally like a 40 milligram pouch and he pops them in like candy. He's a Killa. I don't remember what the brand name was. Killa is the real, is the European brand that I think they do. I think they have a 30. They might even have a 50. Like it might have been 50, dude. Yeah, yeah. I think it's Killa.

And we went on his podcast and he gave me one and I literally thought I was in Mars. I don't even know what I was saying. I think I was speaking Swahili, but it's fine. Yeah, that's way too much. [00:16:00] Yeah, yeah. He would actually probably be a great guy. I don't know if you have time when you're in town, but we should connect you with him too, because he's like a big nicotine guy.

Yeah, yeah. I'd love to talk to him. There's so many good people for you to connect with. I'm sure your brain is always spinning, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just trying to, you know, stay on the straight and narrow. Yeah. What would you say motivates you the most with what you guys are doing at Knickknack as a founder?

Oh, that's a great question. You know, I think it's so many things. I think it's, I was, I was raised in an entrepreneurial family. And so there's that, just that culture that I was raised in, that I was steeped in. So I think there's that part of it too, where it's like, I was raised in a specific way If you want to do things the right way, you have to do it yourself.

And that's kind of like the way it is. You know, you can go work for someone else and just fight people all day or, or just not accomplish anything, which is what, you know, my opinion, most corporations do is they just create barriers. So if you want to break down [00:17:00] barriers. You have to get out there and go for it.

And I think that's, I think that's a big part of it. And then obviously, there's the faith thing. And, you know, just that faith thing. Just that faith thing. And then, you know, my family and, you know, and, and again, you know, when you, when you see something that you've put your heart and soul into helping people, it's incredibly fulfilling.

So that, that for sure drives me. You know, we have people say, Hey, this problem I had went away with your product. You know, next problem, uh, you know, went away and thank you so much. You know, I've had this problem for 45 years, whatever it is. It's like, awesome. And that's, that's amazing. So yeah, super grateful for that.

And super grateful for our customers, you know, give it help helping us with that. Totally. Is it smoking primarily that you hear about? I don't know if you can say what it is or not, but yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, I think that's a fact that I can share is that, yeah, we've had smokers tell us that they've used our product and really love it.

You really, you name it. You know, every, [00:18:00] every source of nicotine out there, you know, cause that's, that's, you know, that's what our product is for. Our product is for people that want a better nicotine option. You know, there's 50 million plus people using nicotine and we want to give them the best possible option.

So, you know, I think, I think we've hopefully have been able to do that. Yeah. I like the way how you kind of described one of your motivations being an entrepreneur is like the capless potential that you face now. And I think that's what a lot of people. almost misconstrued with working a corporate job is like you can definitely, you know, have a great career, crush it, make really good money, be fulfilled.

But that was really the feeling that I, that I felt outside of being a cog in the machine is like my potential really is capped where it was like, Hey, I'm at the startup. I'm doing really well. I'm in a business development role, but Hey, I report directly into the chief revenue officer who reports to the CEO.

So I am capped. So I'm not going to get that role. So if I want to go somewhere else, we'll have to take Another job at another corporation, they're going to cap your salary where, yes, everything that we're doing now is very difficult and there's a lot of uncertainty, but like, Your [00:19:00] potential is limited and it is what you kill and I can't think of anything more motivating than that.

Totally. There's no ceiling Yeah, there's no ceiling It's just how hard can you go and what can you think of and if there's a problem you can solve it right now Yeah, you know, there's no there's no loopholes or whatever barriers you have to go through. So yeah, I know it's amazing but the flip side of that is You know, it's like you're raising another kid.

It's, it is super demanding. So, you know, there's sometimes I miss like the 9 to 5 punch to the clock. Totally. Because you can achieve a more balanced life. Yes. Like, like the startup life does come at a cost. Yeah. And, you know, you have to, you know, I think it's worth it. I think everyone should do it. I think everyone should do it, you know, because it's probably the best growth experience you could have.

Yeah. But, but yeah, no, it's, it's gonna, it'll tax things. You gotta, it'll test your marriage, it'll test your, it'll test everything, but it's, it's good. I mean, it fortifies everything at the end of the day, right? Yeah. It doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. Definitely. And so. Yeah, you know, take on those big [00:20:00] challenges and you get big results, hopefully.

Yeah. I don't know if there's a better way to learn about who you are as a person than trying to build your own business too. And I felt that in full transparency last week, I was on vacation with my girlfriend in Florida and we were, you know, in Miami, we were just supposed to get beach time, go to some good restaurants, relax.

I was looking forward to it for months. And then we had a bunch of big, great things happen with our businesses here. And I felt like it almost took me like, Two full days to just kind of unplug and like even when I was at the beach I was like, you know pulling out my phone and just like thinking about 50 different things at once So I was like, I don't even feel like I can really get settled here because if I'm not working on the business no one's working on the business and that was just kind of like a moment of Of just transparency, of like, I probably do need to do a little bit of a better job, just like, Relaxing when I'm in the moment, work when I'm in the moment too, and unplugging is good, but, I just feel like I haven't really earned that right to unplug yet, so.

I'm right there with ya. Yeah. It's, it's like impossible to, to detach. Yeah. You know, when you're [00:21:00] that invested, and that is the thing about startups, is you just are always thinking about them. Yeah. You're just constantly thinking about whatever's at the forefront, and, You know, turning that off is, is no small feat.

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm hoping to take a vacation one of these days. But, I think, I think I'm gonna have to go for at least a week because, like you said, like the first two days, you can't even, you can't even unwind yet. Yeah. You need, you need three days just to, Just to get over the hump. Yeah, for your body to accept the fact that, like, hey, this isn't go, go, go right now.

We're actually just gonna chill. 100%. Yeah, you're just in, like, fight or flight mode, I feel like. Totally. Yeah, I mean, and that's, that's the bad part of it, is it's, you know, it's aging, it's stressful. Like, I got more gray hairs than when I started. Totally. Like, that's the way it is, but it's at the same time, you know.

I guess we could even get into, like, the overemphasis on longevity. Yeah. Like, going for quality over quantity. And I think that's, I think startups fall into that category of super taxing, will probably shorten your life a little bit, [00:22:00] probably the hardest thing you could do, but probably nothing more worth doing.

Yeah. So that's the awesome part of it. And the romantic side, the romantic part of it too, right? Like, like the tool, like the very meaningful part, you know, we have this like meaning crisis and it's like, Hey, you want to find some meaning? Yeah. Go, go put your, Your ideas on the line your heart and soul on the line for everyone for everyone to judge too, right?

You know because you're going to try to deliver this product And you know a lot of people are not going to like it and that's the way it is And you just have to roll with the punches. Yeah. Yeah, it's a really good point. I think about that a lot like the biohacker that almost takes Andrew Huberman to literally where they have like a 50 step morning routine.

Every piece of meat that they touch needs to be grass fed, regenerative. If it's not spring water, they're not drinking it. You know, they're literally never staring at blue light. They're not touching seed oils at all. And it's like, I respect a lot of that in principle, but I also think that the purpose of doing, you know, prioritizing health and wellness is that you can have like tremendous for that force output as a human.

And [00:23:00] I think it's like you build up this great metabolic machine machinery so you can do really hard and really difficult things and maybe not be optimized for a period of time. I feel like it's a, for me, it's like a dance between those two states. So I don't know if that's something you think about or you agree with or you disagree with, but I've been thinking more about it.

Yeah, no, no, totally. I agree. I mean, I tend to fall in the more orthorexic, uh, category. You know, I, I try not to ever pretty much eat seed oils. I'll do it like maybe twice a year. Yeah. You know, where it's like, yeah, I'm at a wedding. I'm going to eat. I got to eat. I'm just going to enjoy. Yeah. I mean, I'm here to enjoy and, you know, and actually I think you're right.

I think I probably should be more relaxed because there's something to be said about just The power of your perspective, you know, there's a lot of people that don't have negative health outcomes, even though they're living a bad lifestyle, just because their mindset is so good. You know, it's like the power of just being grateful and perceiving things as good.

That has such a [00:24:00] Profound physiological impact that it can often negate a lot of the insults, which is I think fascinating Yeah, so if you're if you're the person that's I think going for it to be perfect and it's obsessive And it isn't positive then I think you're gonna hit diminishing returns and like probably faster than you might realize Yeah Whereas if it is something that is fulfilling you and you're upbeat about it and you're finding that balance where it Makes you feel good, but it isn't your life and your identity Yeah And I think that's probably positive.

Yeah. So, I think that's all, you know, all of us gotta figure out that balance, but Definitely. It certainly can become like quasi religious, like with, with the, the orthorexia. Definitely. Definitely. Yep. And it's like, you know, the, the orthorexia should come with you like, doing something great with like a business or building something of value to society on the other side of you getting great health, not just like, That, you know, your routine or this lifestyle is just like the singular focus of what you pursue.

Unless it's [00:25:00] actually like you could turn into a business, which is amazing. Which is great, and I'm grateful to those people that do that. Yeah. Like, I think that's awesome. They're really crazy biohacker guys that like, they literally, it's their profession to just like, show off their blood work and do crazy stuff.

Yeah. I'm grateful to them because I can't do that. And. I want to know what they figure out so that I can implement the things in a more practical manner. Yeah. So you know, yeah, I'm going to see blue light. That's the way it is. Yeah. But, you know, I'm going to try to mitigate it when I can. Yeah. Are there any non negotiables when it comes to your health that like really feel like they help you function as like a founder, a husband, dad, etc?

Um, yeah. Yeah, there's a, there's a few things that I think I really try to make sure I always do. Um, I pretty much always try to take a magnesium supplement and that kind of goes back to like my earlier. Uh, points about migraines. I found that was like a really critical thing for me, was that just for my brain health, that magnesium was awesome.

So I love magnesium, I always take it. Um, [00:26:00] other things that are critical, I mean obviously exercise, you know, trying not to ever go too long without exercising, obviously just critical. Other than that, I don't know that anything I would say is like an absolute necessity. Yeah, I mean, of course the diet front Like I said, I try not to pretty much ever eat vegetable oils Um, I don't eat artificial sweeteners try to eat exclusively Grass fed beef from a butcher that I know You know try to do all that and live well Yeah, try to make sure I get my my connective tissue in get my gelatin.

Yes all that So yeah on the health on the health side. I'm not sure that there's anything other other than that. That's too critical You So simple. Magnesium, um, grass fed beef. And then, uh, some type of exercise, too. Yeah. Yeah, I play soccer, lift weights, whatever it is. You know, if I can, I'll hit the sauna or do an ice bath.

Yeah. But I don't, if I don't have time, I don't do it. Yeah. So Yeah, so you're not, like, tied to it in a religious way, but if you can do [00:27:00] sauna, ice bath, it's Yeah, if I had, if I had the time every day, I would absolutely sauna, ice bath and, and hit the gym and all that. Yeah. Dude, the quality of your thoughts after a good contrast session are, like, incredible.

It is, it is one of the best pastimes. Yeah. It is, it is just joyous. Yeah. I've had moments where I thought everything was going to blow up, and then I'll like jump in the ice bath after like a 20 minute round in the sauna, and it can just be like two minutes in the ice bath, and I feel like when I get out, after I sit there for a little bit, I'm like everything's going to be okay.

Totally. I mean, and cold is such a powerful signal to the nervous system and heat too. And just like the way that it stimulates your nervous system is so cool. And then also the way that, you know, people, everyone now is like, oh, we can't, at least this is what I'm hearing in the health spaces. Oh, it turns out stress is really bad.

All cortisol is bad. It's like, okay, yeah, I get it. It's aging, you know, but like one of the really cool things about ice baths is you build it. [00:28:00] Adrenaline tolerance. Like it's, you build, you build this stress tolerance. And then, like, what a cool skill to have that when your body's going, hey, red alarm, you're just cool.

Yeah. Like you're just like, no problem. You can just cope with that. Yeah. And then obviously there's a diminishing, you know, stress response as you get used to ice baths. But I've heard a lot of people get a negative on them and it's like, well, let's not, uh, let's not get too carried away here. Like we got to, I think we need to see like people that are consistently doing them, how they react to it.

It's like, yeah, if you throw someone in cold water that has never done an ice bath, yeah, they're going to get crazy stressed. But yeah, it seems like there's a profoundly. Different effect that you can feel, if you're the type of person that does them often. Yeah, I felt like a couple months ago, I think it was like Carnivore Relius put out this hit piece on ice baths, and then there was all this like propaganda that was anti ice bath.

And I'm just like, do you feel good when you do it? Well, if you should, I think you should, you should keep doing it too. Just try and keep it simple. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and again, this [00:29:00] goes back to like, listen to your body. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's not that complicated. If you feel good doing it, it's fine. More than likely it's probably good.

Yeah, like I find it obviously super anti inflammatory super energizing It's like I don't know. I feel pretty damn good after an ice bath. So totally I'm gonna keep doing it

What's the best way for For people to connect with you if they want to learn more about knick knack if they want to order knick knack learn more about what you? Guys have going on. Yeah, absolutely You can find us at knick knack. com and I see NAC calm You I don't know. We got, we have Instagram and all that stuff.

I don't have social media, so I can't remember any of those, but they're all on our website, so if you just go to nicknack. com, you can, uh, find, you can contact, contact us from there, and all of our social media links are on there, so. Nice. Yep. Is that intentional that you don't have social media? Yeah, I personally just don't have any social media.

I love that. Yeah. So it's, you get a little bit out of touch, but it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. As long as you have a team that can kind of keep you in the weeds, [00:30:00] like Julia, who's here. Yeah. Julia. She's fabulous. Julia saves me from my otherwise social ignorance. Yeah. But I even noticed like having a brand that's rooted in social media, my phone, my screen time has gone up a lot.

And my initial thought process will be like, Oh, well I have a brand on Instagram and Twitter, so I need to be on these things. Yeah. And then if I honestly look at it, I'm like, well, are you just, are you creating, are you posting something of value, are you interacting with someone you care about, or are you just scrolling just to scroll?

And that's something I've been thinking a lot about is like, just keep, like, how do I keep clawing back time? Like how much time would I save if I'm not just like mindlessly scrolling? Oh, I think that's the test is, can you not scroll? Yeah. And I found that most of the time I can't. I just don't do it.

Yeah. Because it's, it's, yeah. I mean, talk about dopamine. I mean, I don't, screens are just crazy. Totally. How addictive they are. Totally. Just that dopamine drip. Yeah. People wonder why they can't sleep. Right. Oh my gosh. It's like you just keep scrolling. You're not gonna, it's way too stimulating. Yeah.

That's actually one of the things I've noticed is that when [00:31:00] I get off my phone early and I like read the Bible or read a book, or do a little bit of writing or journaling or prep for the next day. My dreams for whatever reason are a lot more vivid when I'm off my phone earlier, and I don't know what that is I don't know if that's just anecdotal.

That's just something that I have experienced. What makes sense right like you're not taxing those Neurochemicals as much right so maybe your brain is just more primed to to operate in a different way. Yeah Makes sense. That's why I love talking to an engineer. Cause you can just explain all the thoughts that I have in my head.

Ooh, dangerous game, dangerous game, but seriously, man, I'm so appreciative of you doing this. Like, I think one of the coolest things about this show is getting to actually meet people that are the creators of brands that Harry, myself, our listeners really resonate with, especially brands like you, that, that I truly believe are doing things in like a healthy way and really trying to revolutionize the industry.

So, um, you know, we'll put all the links to, to knickknack and the show Appreciate you keeping our office nice and fueled up with that nicotine infused goodness. And dude, God [00:32:00] bless your mission and everything that you guys are doing. Hey, same to you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Cool man. Thanks Nico.