The Meat Mafia Podcast

Part 2
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[00:00:00] Should we hit it? Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So my grandmother was very health conscious.

She thought organic was cool way before anyone else did. And she was a vegetarian, but very low fat. And she ended up getting Alzheimer's in 2000. She was so healthy. She was fit, practice meditation, this is back in the, 80s.

And she got Alzheimer's and I do believe the lack of fat in her diet contributed to the Alzheimer's. I don't want to do a low fat diet. I want to do a real food diet. ​

You know what? You're making me think like, I love the fact that you have this. You're technically fourth gen, but in some ways you're kind of first gen at the same time.

You're this really interesting hybrid. And it sounds like when you read Omnivore's Dilemma, that totally changed your perspective on food. And I think everyone remembers that light bulb moment when you understand what real food is versus [00:01:00] like highly processed industrial food. I remember deciding I was going to go carnivore because I really wanted to try and heal my autoimmunity through diet.

And I remember going through the Whole Foods in New York City and just looking at ingredient label after ingredient label and just thinking like, I think back to Food Inc with Michael Pollan where he was calling a lot of these products food like substances versus real food. And just being like, we've just gotten things so ass backwards.

Like even the meat at the grocery store, there could be 20 plus touch points. And what real food actually is and what a real transaction is, is what you're describing of like you and your mom and your family putting in this incredible care and these biodynamic practices to raise animals, to raise cattle with this really healthy, sustained life.

incredible quality product. I paid my hard earned dollar directly to use the customer and it's just like very additive process versus this destructive process at the grocery store. And it's kind of a long winded way of just saying how is this whole process of becoming a rancher and a steward just change your [00:02:00] perspective on food in general and what real food actually is.

Wow, that's a great question. People always think it's such a complex answer when they're like, well, what's your diet? What do you eat? And I'm like, anything that can grow from the ground, anything that I can actually cultivate on the farm in season. But the aha moment for me, I mean, I was interested in cooking.

I would say when I Started farming, especially like I started to get a little interested in cooking in college when I realized I was just like Bloated blowing up with beer and bread Beard bread

And so I started cooking and What was that diet back is? Oh, it's like I can't remember the name of the diet, but I started doing this diet [00:03:00] Like it wasn't whole 30, but it was similar to that. Yeah, and Started doing this diet and realized, wow, I feel a whole lot better, but all I was eating was vegetables, meat, you know, fruit occasionally.

And I had more energy. My brain fog completely went away. I could sit in school longer, which was shocking. I was like, oh, maybe I can sit here if I feed my brain the right way. Things. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. A big part of something that I didn't realize till later. So my grandmother was very health conscious.

She thought organic was cool way before anyone else did. And she was a vegetarian, but very low fat. And she ended up getting Alzheimer's in 2000. She was so healthy. She was fit. She, you know, practice meditation back in, this is back [00:04:00] in the, 80s. I mean, this is not, it wasn't what it is now for a time. Yeah.

And she got Alzheimer's and I, I haven't studied it that much, but I do believe the lack of fat in her diet contributed to the Alzheimer's. And I remember thinking like, I don't want to do a low fat diet. I want to do a real food diet. And then I discovered low food. Which I don't know if you're familiar with slow food.

No, I'm actually not familiar with it. Okay, so slow food is the movement started in Italy. Basically this guy, they were putting a McDonald's in his town. I think it was Torino, Italy or something. You can fact check me. I don't. And, uh, yeah, they were putting a McDonald's in his town and instead of just protesting, like being like, we don't want McDonald's.

[00:05:00] We make fresh food and we grow our own food and meats and vegetables are healthy. He sat. In the streets and gathered people with bowls of fresh made pasta and just said, we're going to eat real food, slow food, not this fast food that you're bringing to our town. And it created this whole movement. And I connected with that really well because I just connect with real food.

Like Michael Pollan was talking about eat real food. I love that. That's the most italian story of all time, by the way um I really appreciate what you said too and I appreciated I was actually laughing at your comment before you were like I don't know how you feel about vegetables on carnivore and harry and I have I know the meat mafia is like a very off putting name and you're like These guys are probably carnivore and I have so much admiration or respect for the carnivore diet.

And honestly, when I was chronically inflamed, like I was, I really just needed a red meat bone broth removal diet to [00:06:00] just get the inflammation out of my system. But I think this concept of carnivore versus vegan is really just the wrong battle. And it's like, I'll be uniting against big food and industrial food and like connecting with your local rancher.

And what I try and say is like anything that's grown on your farm, I think as a consumer, you should do the research and the experimentation on like what combination of those foods work best with your body. We're like, now my stomach is so permeable where if I want to have some amazing vegetables that Pavel is growing with some steak, I can do that.

But maybe sometimes I'll just have steak or maybe some people are a little bit more plant based, like. I'm trying to get out of the dogma of a one size fits all approach and just be like, you know what, if you can just develop that intuition, buy real food from a farm, figure out what makes sense for you, regardless of how much meat or, or not you're eating, you're going to be so much better off than someone on an industrial food diet.

So true. You said it perfectly. I, I completely agree with, [00:07:00] listen to your intuition, listen to your gut, if you will, and it'll tell you what makes you feel good. Yes, you're making me want to come. Harry and I, we got to do something where maybe we could come out to the farm and do like a big farm dinner or something like that.

That would be so much fun. I would love that. That's something that you want to do more of, right? Or these like farm experiences where you can invite people out from neighboring cities to Really get exposure to what you're doing. Because I think I told you when I was in New York and I first went carnivore, I'm like, I don't even know how to find a local farmer.

So I think there are so many people that have never gotten exposure to a biodynamic farm or have never seen a big herd of cattle before. I've never. Met a local rancher and they get to experience that and then probably have one of the best meals of their lives too. That's grown like in the exact area that they're in.

So I'm sure that excites you to do more of that. I love connecting people with the farm and watching their faces as their mind is blown when like a garlic seed is a [00:08:00] clove of garlic or asparagus pops out of the ground magically every spring. Just like what? Taking, I keep on being like, This year I just want to take people out to the pasture and catting season.

And look at their faces, especially kids. Like, I love watching people who just haven't been around cattle be just enveloped, like, just, they're just all around you. Yeah. And you see the little tiny babies and the mamas are calling them. You can tell which one the baby's mama is. And it, it's nature just to its purest degree.

Yeah, yeah, that and then you're the one that's cultivating those experiences like I don't think there was a reason why when you were a kid, some of your favorite memories were just like walking around on the property. And I'm like, I've been we've been doing a lot of podcasting around the concept of just grounding and like getting your shoes off and getting in the sun and connecting with the soil and [00:09:00] really grounding yourself.

And I'm like, yeah. There probably couldn't be a better feeling for you than just being able to walk around the property barefoot. Obviously, you gotta watch out for the cow pies and the dung beetles, but if you can avoid that, it probably is amazing. Why avoid it? It's gotta be good for your skin. Yeah, but, but no, it's, it's just something I've been thinking about more.

Um, do you ever wonder what your, like, what your grandma would think if she could see what the ranch looks like now? Yeah. If I could, I definitely take time to connect with that idea and that thought and there I have, she got sick when I was like 15 and I was just getting to know her and just seeing this.

woman ahead of her time who cared so much about connecting people with healthy [00:10:00] food, with the land and with understanding themselves. She was very self aware. And I remember thinking like, wow, this woman is powerful. And now people that knew her, whenever they meet me, they're like, you're so much like your grandmother was like one of my best friends, actually.

Our grandmothers were friends and she's very much like her grandmother. We're both generational, uh, business owners. And it's so cool to just to like, you could feel that, like when you meet someone, you're like, I feel like I know you and you're like, Oh, our grandmothers were friends. Like we clearly were meant to be friends.

Well, it's probably such a badge of honor because it sounds like your grandma had such an amazing impact and had this vision of like what the farm could potentially turn into. So I would imagine it's just a very honorable feeling to think back to like 2005, [00:11:00] 2006, when you had this dream and this business plan to, and I know that you, there are a lot, you have huge dreams of what you want to turn the farm into, but already what you've done over this last 18 year period, I'm sure it's just like a magical, special feeling that's probably tough to articulate to people.

It is tough to articulate and that's why I want to bring people out. I want to get people out of looking at their cell phones and just. You know, I, I feel like whenever I ask anyone how they're doing these days, like busy, I'm like, well, what the heck is that? Like, are you laboring over something? Are you sitting there staring at the devices?

Cause I don't know what busy is. And so I want to bring people out to just see that there's more to life than looking down, like look up, experience something. And I also collaborating with my brothers. Uh, they are great business people, they've been so [00:12:00] respectful of the business and we're now starting to have conversations about how we could all use our skills towards this family farm and I have kids now, so I can imagine the next generation, like, I love it being a family farm, not and beyond just our family.

I mean, we built a community of farmers who feel like family. And how can we embrace that type of living more where you're living in community and it's part of your daily rhythm to look up and see a like minded person also using their physical bodies to produce food. That is something magical to me that has been going on for generations.

I realize this isn't a new phenomenon. Definitely. Yeah, you're making me think I'd be curious with you growing up in Kentucky. Like I grew up in like a very metropolitan area, like New Jersey, like the New Jersey, New York metro region. And [00:13:00] I come from an area where most people have college degrees. And I felt like you were what were prized were like corporate professions.

And things like trade jobs and agrarian jobs and things like that were almost looked down. And I see a lot of millennials that are my age that are very, that have gone that corporate route. And I was one of them that was very disenfranchised. And then one of the coolest things for me is like connecting with people like you and some of these amazing ranchers where I'm like, I don't know if there's anything more noble or like, you're actually building something like you're regenerating the land and then you're creating like the most nutrient dense products that you're selling to the community where it's like, I think we have this innate desire to want to build and connect and do things in a healthy way.

And so many people in corporate America, it's like, I think people are starting to wake up and realizing not really building anything or doing anything. And they're, they're, they want to figure out what else is out there. So I think just visiting a farm like yours or just a local farm in general, it's just a great way to rewire [00:14:00] your perspective with food and life.

And I think you would be amazed at what, what, what mental shifts in yourself you would get from doing that. Yes. I would love to support people in discovering that. And I want to connect with those people, too. I feel like, I think I told you this when we first met, I've been so I mean, head up in the sense of like looking at nature and appreciate nature, but very focused on the farm, very focused on how can I heal this piece of land?

How can I learn this skill? And how can I build this community by bringing people in and I'm ready to look up and connect. With people that are different than me that are also founders and have stories to share and I can learn so much from and are inspired in what inspires them. It may not necessarily be, they want to be a farmer, but they're super proud about what they're doing.

[00:15:00] Definitely. Yeah. Like that, that pride around their craft is so cool. We, we literally the day before yesterday, we had this, uh, our buddy Trevor on, he actually is starting a meat stick company called man bar. And it's a bison and beef bar with 30 percent fat in the bar. And so, you know, we've gotten to know him over the last year, you know, we had him on the podcast and I've tried to help him out from a marketing perspective.

And so he chooses as a, as a thank you gift. He, he teams up with his buddy. Who's a blacksmith and he made us this incredible custom knife, this like big cutting knife. That's really like a butcher's knife with like a little meat mafia insignia on it. And like I get into this guy who's got this amazing craft as a blacksmith and it's like to your point You know I love connecting with people that have this like hard working like artisan mentality that are really trying to build something and it kind of feels like there's this ship going on in this country of I think people are really like craving that and now with the internet there's so much access to learn these different trades and [00:16:00] professions like I know not everyone can just get a plot of land, but there are other ways that you can get involved in like a similar craft or a trade.

Yeah, exactly. Just having a passion and going for it, even if, yeah, that access to land point is such a strong point. I would love to work on that and try to figure that out. I'm one project I'm working. With is the Berry Center, which is in Newcastle, Kentucky. It was started by Wendell Berry's daughter, Mary Berry.

And they are working hard to figure out how to create a system, a program that can support farmers. So that's what I was saying. A big problem is the market isn't out there. I mean, you have to be a small entrepreneurial farmer that is willing to do all the marketing and branding. Or you have to be huge and sell to the mass market.

There's no middle ground. And so how can we build that middle ground? So then when we're, it is [00:17:00] possible for these people to have their, their dream, their passion, their, it could go in so many directions of just getting back to connecting with the basics, like. Knives and like a blacksmith. I would love to have a blacksmith on our farm.

Oh my gosh, how much welding we have to do. It's ridiculous. Why then he's a, he's super guy. Yeah, no, I think, and I think the future too is, um, and I don't know if this is the right answer or the wrong answer, but I think about, I see a lot of founders that make money online and then they kind of funnel that online wealth into physical businesses.

I think that's part of the trend. And I also think that we're going to see first gen ranchers that maybe did well on a past life professionally and know how to raise capital and are able to pull in money from like VCs that have this similar mentality that care about our food and want to invest in like a [00:18:00] smart savvy rancher, then they can take that capital and actually buy farmland.

Cause it's like, otherwise it's going to go to these. massive farms or Chinese farms or bizarre private investors that are probably going to monocrop it and turn it into fake meat and all the other BS that's out there. Like we kind of have to have that skin in the game. And I hope we see this, this continued trend of, um, hungry first gen ranchers that are able to raise capital and start acquiring some land and doing some good with it.

Yes, let's let's support those folks. Yeah, and I think I can't believe how far along Foxhollow is like, it's shocking to me. I'm like, Mom, you are brilliant. How did you know it's gonna take off? Yeah. Um, so if you look back at your initial business plan, Were there, were there any things that you were really on the money with?

And was there anything that you were like, Oh, wow, I totally missed this. Like, I know you wrote it super long ago, but I'm just curious if you remember. I look at it. Yeah. I [00:19:00] still look at that. I would say with the marketing branding side, I was pretty spot on. I'm like who the target market is. And sort of what it's going to take to build that.

And the other thing I, so when I wrote it, I was like, Oh no, this is a 20 year return on investment. There's no way I'm convincing my family to do this. And now that we're almost to 20 years, I'm like, no, we, we did it. Like, this is pretty cool. That's why I'm like looking up, I think too. Cause I'm like, Oh, I'm to the end of where I went then.

So now I have this new chapter that we can start. And I mean, where I went wrong, infrastructure is so expensive. Things break. There are so many buildings on our farm that we have to take care of. Thank God, my brother in law, [00:20:00] who he's been helping so much. We, we have this other. who just, you know, it's knows electric.

I mean, y

Yeah. My girlfriend's dad has been a plumber. He's an incredible plumber and craftsman. So like, not only is he a plumber, he built like every house in their neighborhood. And I'm like, this guy can do anything. It's like the guy that you're talking about. Like you need men like that. All right. It's like, I don't know anything.

I got to get out of the city boy mentality, but you even see it on your branches. Like you need people that have those savvy skills to be able to do the repairs and maintain the infrastructure and all that stuff. Otherwise it gets very expensive. Yes. And then one thing I really, I mean, I should have known this about myself, but I sure do care a lot about beautification.

I mean, I try so hard to be this chill, you know, we're on a ranch, there's piles of rebar over [00:21:00] here and I'm okay with, you know, brush piles and things like that, but oh man, it's hard for me to digest that. I want everything to just feel like this fairy land. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that costs money, by the way.

I'm sure. Well, that's, it also should be encouraging for a lot of people that you have this 20 year ROI and it sounds like you exceeded that faster than you thought you were going to. And I think we need to break the, this mental paradigm around the fact that biodynamic and regenerative practices can't be profitable.

In fact, I think they can be profitable. And I hope that, um, People embrace that. Cause I think a lot of people are just like, Oh, ranching is just like, you're just going to lose money. It's not a money making business. And I think there are a lot of ranchers that have like really breaking that mold and that paradigm.

So, yeah, I'm just getting to where I'm understanding that. I was very distracted [00:22:00] in the. Beginning. And I mean, honestly, up until about five years ago, I was very distracted by let's do this, let's do that. Let's try this. But I mean, you can be that way, especially when there's so much to do and so far to go.

And yeah, I made so many mistakes that wasted a lot of money, but I definitely have a hard. Like, were you saying that? I'm like, Oh gosh, I don't know if that's true, but maybe like, yes, it's true. That I do agree. Yes, it's true. It can be profitable. And the Berry center has helped me see that and prove that.

Cause they are very smart and they are, that's the work they're doing. They're trying to show that ranching can be profitable and we can build this co op that can take farmers from sending cattle out to the market, but staying. Like you were saying that there are people that had past careers and have these skills.

Oh my gosh, I could have used some of those skills in the beginning. I mean, now people are willing to talk to me and they're like, let me [00:23:00] look at your numbers. Let me help you out. I am sharing my numbers with people now that, that I'm like, I need something. What do I need? What do I need? And That was really hard to get past, especially I feel like in the beginning, if I ever went to like my accountant or anyone for financial advice, basically they lived in the widget mindset.

Like you need more widgets. I'm like, no, we're naturally growing our herd. So what do I need? Yeah. And now there's tallow, there's liver pills, there's dog treats. I mean, it's infinite what you can do. It's unbelievable. All these, all these parts of the cow that were probably worthless in 06. It's like, you can literally start multiple businesses just based on these products.

Yeah. So that's where I am now. And I am so ready. Wow. So we're thinking maybe we'll see some Fox hollow tallow, skin care, cooking tallow, meat sticks, perhaps [00:24:00] maybe cap liver capsules, all of it. I hope so. Love that. We need it. We need more. I need more partners, but yeah. Well, we should talk. Cause maybe I know a guy.

Yeah. I mean, Realistically, I'm also a mama and I have three little kids and I absolutely love spending time with them on the farm and so I am realizing I need some partners. And I think that's what women have done for years is families and community and help each other. And just, it'll be a lot easier than trying to do it all yourself.

Oh my gosh, a hundred percent. I mean, even with our supplement company, noble, just finding the right people that understand finances and operations. Cause it's like Harry and I are front end guys. We, you know, we formulated the product, but we're really sales and marketing guys, and we love building community and love speaking about this stuff.

It. Trying to [00:25:00] spread the product as far and wide as possible, but it's like, you know, balance sheet margin, stuff like that. When you bring in the right specialist, it's like, wow, this just made my life. Why was I even trying to do this? I should have just brought in a specialist from day one of my life would have been so much easier.

And it sounds like you you've experienced the same thing too. It's like, Oh, I did that for 17 years.

Yeah. So it's like bringing the right eight players that way, that gives you more of that, like work life balance and time to spend with the kiddos and prioritize the things that you want to prioritize. I'm glad I did that though. I wouldn't have appreciated it as much as I do now. Well, then there's finding that help.

Yeah. And cause you, there's probably this amazing aspect of like, Maggie knows everything about the farm and I think there's value in just being that person. That's kind of like knows the ins and outs of everything. Yeah. Every nook and cranny. Definitely. Um, so what's the best way for people to connect with you, whether it's like learning more about [00:26:00] Fox Hollow, ordering some of your products.

I know you're sandwiched in between like two major cities. So for people that are maybe there that want to connect with you and maybe come out to the farm, like, yeah, just any information you want to share about the farm. So we're about 20 miles outside of Louisville, Kentucky. We're close to Cincinnati as well.

We love people coming to visit us. We're near Indianapolis. We're in a great little triangle there in the Midwest. And you can visit foxhall. com. We ship nationwide. And also our Instagram is pretty fun. I would say it's Fox hall of farm. K Y yeah. Yeah. I also have a TV show on PBS stations across the nation called the farmer and the foodie.

My partner, Lindsay and I, she's the foodie. I'm the farmer. We visit different farms around Kentucky. It's a great way to just understand where farmers are coming from, learn more about [00:27:00] farmers, but then also Lindsay creates these like super approachable recipes made with. Local ingredients. So awesome.

That's, that's a fun watch. So you're, you're doing a lot. I know you have big dreams and a lot more to come, but it's just so cool to learn more about stories like this and everything. Like even just the origin stories with your grandma and expanding the lands, everything that you and your mom are doing now, it's like, it's just, it's a very inspiring story.

I feel like I could, I'm on fire after this podcast. So I just appreciate that there's people like you that exist that are really fighting the good fight and trying to Grow the best products, the best products possible and make the land healthier and restorative. And, uh, just appreciate you doing the show and hopefully we'll be able to come out to the farm and actually meet you in person.

I would love that. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. This was fun. I'm inspired too. So yeah, let's do this. Awesome. Maggie. Thanks. [00:28:00]