The Meat Mafia Podcast

Welcome back to another episode of the meat mafia podcast. On today's episode, we are doing another mafia moments, which is when we go back in time throughout the history of our entire podcast and find 20 minute nuggets with some of our best guests talking about some of the most important piece of information. On today's episode, we have on Veronica max who owns ultra personal healthcare, which is a patient centered health clinic that is run on a membership model. Veronica has been in the healthcare space for over a decade.

And she's been on the front lines, helping people treat disease, but she ultimately wanted to flip the script and start. Uh, center that allowed her to treat people on a more proactive basis. So she's actually helping people with blood work and understanding their health so that they're not constantly sick and constantly in the prescriptive model of healthcare.

So would that being said on today's clips, you're going to hear Veronica talk about the hormone crisis and. Obviously this point can be. Overlooked by so many people. And it can also be, uh, something that seems a little bit alarmist, but I think Veronica does an incredible job breaking down what's happening in the world of health from a hormone perspective.

So we talk about men and women and how really our hormone health is suffering through diet and lifestyle choices. Much of which are in our own control. So one of the things that I really appreciate about Veronica is that she comes from this perspective of really trying to help her patients understand their blood work. And understand the, the hormones. Uh, themselves.

So we talk a bit about testosterone and how that is playing a role in overall men's health, but also just the fertility problem from both a male and female perspective. We also dive a bit into Veronica's takes on home births as she is.

A mother, uh, and has had several homers over, over her own. So really an interesting conversation.

I think you guys will get a lot out of this and without further ado, Veronica, max.,  Does it, does it surprise you? You guys were talking about hormones? Does it surprise you to see how many people are struggling with hormones, whether it's guys with lower testosterone levels through blood work, or women just struggling to get pregnant? And I mean, obviously that that's with both sexes without problem, but it's like, it seems like there's a big issue at hand and it is.

It is getting attention, but I feel like there's clearly more attention that should be drawn towards that conversation. Yeah, I mean, I think that's multifactorial. I am seeing it. You know, I look, I work with a lot of women that are, you know, uh, in their 30s or late 20s or, you know, usually maybe in their early 40s too, right?

Um, that are trying to get pregnant. Um, you know, and diet's a part of that. Light environment's a part of that. These screens, you know, the phones that, uh, you know, especially that, gosh, I was about to say this younger generation, but, uh, you know, Cell phones were introduced when I was in high school, at least the more, you know, compact versions.

Um, and so, but, but everybody's on their phone and late at night and you better believe that impacts your everything, every body system, and it absolutely impacts your sex hormones. So does not getting outside first thing in the morning so that your circadian rhythm can be, you know, oh, it's, it's a new day.

It's time to start, you know, making these different steroid sex hormones. Yes. Um, so there's, you know, you know, and then guys, right? Putting, putting this in their back pocket or putting it on their, you know, their crotch, frying their balls. Unfortunately. Yeah. Or sitting in their computer right there on their lap, you know?

And it's plugged into the, you know, when it's plugged in, we could talk about EMS too. It's like a few years ago, I thought that was like wackadoodle. But when I started doing more research, there's actually a lot of evidence out there about that. And it's, you know, it's just not widely known. Yeah. Um, so, and it's, you know, it's sad.

And then. Beyond just the infertility thing, it's, uh, you know, I was talking to Chris Williamson the other day, there's all these men that aren't even interested in having a relationship with women. And what's that about? Yeah. Yeah. It's insane. I think he has, he had some posts that went crazy viral that I think like millennial men in particular are like having the least amount of sex out of any generation ever.

There's like zero sex drive. Right. Right. Because their testosterone is, you know, through the, Yeah. My thinking would be that it's like, it's two things, like the actual bio, biological process of not having enough testosterone, but also our attention is now being drawn into like the digital world where we're so distracted with things that just are like on Instagram or, you know, pornography, these things that just distract us away from actually creating real life intimacy, which is obviously like, I feel like getting lost in today's culture.

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, uh, people are very traumatized and this is a, this is a great distraction. And like I said, really, in order to be healthy, the first thing that you have to do is get in touch with yourself. You know, and I, I can say, you know, a few years ago, like there's a reason why I was a college athlete and then an entrepreneur is because I was looking to fill a void.

me through all these external accolades, you know, whether it was, uh, you know, winning races or CrossFit competitions or, you know, um, then making money, right? Uh, but that ultimately didn't make me happy, right? And so then it came to like, okay, uh, doing the emotional work to, to then actually fill that, that void.

from the inside out, so to speak, and get in touch with myself. And then, Oh, well, um, you know, my intuition will lead me in the right direction. You know, even before that, there was a lot of hints of that, you know, um, whether it, uh, talking about the home births and, you know, having my babies, um, at home, I knew working in a hospital, I mean, seeing everything, all the mistakes that happen, how dirty it is, all the, you know, what we call nosocomial infections or, you know, uh, infections that you get in the hospital.

That was the last place I wanted to be as a patient, let alone for something like pregnancy, which I wouldn't consider a, you know, a medical illness or a disease process. It's a very healthy thing, right? So I was just afraid to be a, I still am afraid to be a patient in the, you know, the mainstream medical system.

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So go check out the link below sacred hunting. com. All right, back to the show. I would avoid that at all costs. Totally. When you were describing home births before we sat down, it actually reminded me the way you were describing, um, mother's fears of like going out on their own to have their, their own, their own home birth.

It wasn't super dissimilar for how I felt when I was trying to heal my UC holistically because I had a traditional GI. He was a great guy, but wasn't really talking to me about diet and lifestyle. And I remember when I was thinking about going carnivore and I had this possibility of maybe going off my meds, it made me really nervous because I was just taught your doctor tells you what to do and you just blanket follow instructions.

And I think that's probably the same, even probably even more extreme with home birthing in general where you're like women are so conditioned to being like, if I have a baby, I need to go into the hospital. There's all these things that can happen if I do it on my own. But as a mom, that's, you know, home birth for children.

You have a great perspective on that. Yeah, no. I mean, um, You know, I didn't even know that I was, I grew up, my mom was a nurse, right? Uh, I became a nurse. It was, it was when I was a nurse that I first found out about home birth. I didn't know that was a thing. I didn't know it was a possibility open to me.

You know, because my mom was always very vocal about, Oh yeah, I had a, you were, I was so happy you were breached, because that meant I got to have a C section and, you know, nothing would happen to my vagina. Um. Um, yeah, I'm just like, really, you wanted to have a C section, so I didn't mess up your vagina.

Okay. Um, anyway, that's another story. Um, so yeah. So when I, when I realized that was an option, like, Oh, that's really interesting. And then I watched the business of being born, which, um, You know, I don't know that you guys would have watched that at this point in your lives, but I watched that and I was like, oh, this just makes so much sense, you know, um, but yeah, no, having a baby, um, the idea was just never introduced, like, Uh, in my family and in my, you know, the social circles that I grew up in, it was never an option.

Uh, it was never, it was seen as a, some sort of disease process, something happened to you and you needed help with, right. Um, but in the Midwifery Model of care, it's so beautiful. Um, you know, My midwife really, uh, and I didn't even really know it was happening when, you know, when I had my first one, but, um, really just reinforce the idea that, Hey, your body is divine.

You have every, all of the knowledge, all of everything that you need within you to have this baby. Um, we just need to get out of the way and, um, you know, it's funny during a home birth, you know, the midwives, you know, like I, one of the things I liked about it was I had all the lights off. I had candlelight, you know, just even turning off bright lights, bright lights are kind of irritating, right?

If you're in pain and, um, uh, just having the dim light really, um, was beautiful. And then, you know, the midwives kind of just. into the background. It's not about them. They're, they, and you know what, they would just make, um, suggestions at times or they would, or they would reinforce what I was doing. Like, Oh, Veronica, that's so, um, that's so brilliant that you moved on your side.

I think that will really help, open up your, you know, birth canal or whatever it was they were saying. Right. Um, that just made me feel confident in what I was naturally doing, you know, which is the opposite of, yeah. a typical relationship with a medical provider or healthcare provider. And I think, you know, now that we're talking about it, they actually taught me a lot about how to be a better healthcare provider and even just the process of going through that and digging into the depths of myself.

Um, Uh, it's just really, it's, it's very difficult to explain, but it's a profound experience where you're just as vulnerable as you could ever be, right? Because it's, it is painful, you know? I did it four times, so obviously, um, you know, it's not something that's so bad that I wouldn't do it. Um, but it is, you know, you are in a very vulnerable spot.

And then to have, to be supported by other women, I think that was really important for me too. Um, Cause you know, I have a little bit of, um, there's some strain in the relationship with my mom and their husband. So to be supported by other women in a very nurturing maternal way during, during those, um, those bursts was very healing for me, you know?

So, um, I want people to know that that exists and that's out there. Right. And, and that, you know, the medical, um, you know, there are, there are different options within the healthcare realm. Right. Yeah. It's not just doesn't have to be that paternalistic approach of I'm the expert and I know better than you about your body.

Right. Um, so what was your comfort level from the first home birth to the second one? Cause I imagine that first time you Developed a more confidence and intuition with your body worked totally It was and it's funny because I went into the first home birth first off You know Tucker could probably tell you his whole side of the story because I was we need to hear that Because I was just running.

I mean, I was doing I was my bishop. I was doing CrossFit, you know, it's a summertime He's born July 30th. I was working out like on Riverside, you know in a garage gym is a hundred something degrees You know lift like 20 pounds beating the guys, you know, cause that was my thing. I had to compete and like beat the dudes or else like, you know, um, like eight months pregnant, you know?

And so I actually went into that, but so I was just running around town. It was just, I was just talking about being dissociated and not being fully integrated as a, you know, human at that point. But, um, anyway, uh, I went into that birth like a CrossFit competition. You know, I thought, Oh, this is a, like, you have to win everything.

Right. I have to win. It's, it's, it's a hard thing. Yeah. It's painful, but I just pushed through it. Right. Um, and that didn't really work out. So that's the funny thing, you know, it's like, uh, birth will teach you how to surrender. Um, and I can't say that I fully learned, um, during that first birth. I mean, I remember we were on rainy street, we had an apartment, uh, you know, so we were looking out over the city when Bishop was born at like 4 46 in the morning, but you know, it was painful, you know, and, um, had I had been in a hospital and had access to meds, I definitely would have said, Oh yeah, put it, put in that epidural or, or give me something.

Um, but. I didn't have access to that, you know, and so, you know, it just solidified my choice, which I had made the choice to be there. And you know, I was screaming at one point and the midwife was like, Veronica, could you perhaps, you know, concentrate that energy downward and envision it toward an opening your, you know, your cervix.

And I was like, okay, you're telling me to be quiet. Okay. That's a great idea. But no, I just thought that I could push the baby out. Right. Which you do push the baby out. But the thing that I didn't understand is that your body will do that. Right. On its own. You don't have to consciously do that. I don't think I really got that message.

My second birth at home, like bond just kind of came, popped right out. Um, but my third one is where I think that really hit home. Um, I was in the shower for awhile and just kind of swaying. And then I noticed that, Oh my, I'm kind of groaning now, like kind of more guttural, like, primal sound. I just, I consciously noticed that I was, I had changed.

Um, and then I got in the birth pool and um, my body just pushed, that was my, my son Deacon, my third, my four year old, my body just pushed him out. And it was so like, I just totally surrendered to the process. Like I didn't actively push him. Like I didn't consciously think my body pushed him out. Got it.

And it was such a beautiful, like easy, it was just a great experience. It was like you felt that evolution from your first. Yeah. Like I'm like, Oh, I, I really get it now, you know, from CrossFit competition birth to, Oh, I just need to, I just got to surrender here, um, surrender to the divine power of my body and that it has everything that it needs to do this.

Yeah. That's such an amazing story. You make me think of, um, it seems like, like there are a lot of moms and women that listen to the podcast and the progression that I see is like, Nutrition and the foods that you put into your system is kind of this gateway into the alternative health movement. So you go from like, all right, these are the foods that make me feel good.

Now maybe I want to find like a regenerative farm to source from. Maybe I want to get into homesteading, sauna, coal plunging. And then it's like the tip of the spear kind of seems like the home birthing process and really taking control of something that's so important. Think about it. Cause it's like, uh, when you have a, you know, there's no judgment around having a baby in the hospital or having a baby in a birthing center.

Like I don't there there's a there's not a right or wrong answer It's whatever the best answer is for you What's your most comfortable with but it's important that women know the different options that are available But I do think that when you are able to birth your baby into the world Um, and know that you did it yourself, that you, you know, because oftentimes it's easy to think if you had that baby in the hospital with a doctor, you know, with an epidural and um, uh, and meds, it's easy to think that you needed that to have the baby, that you needed, you know, the medical system for that.

Um, and so you're kind of birthing your baby into that paradigm. And so when you opt out of that, there's no one that I could point and say, Oh, you did this other than look at myself, you know? Um, and that's, Um, it's hard to describe just how empowering that is for the, for the aspiring moms that are interested in maybe exploring a home birthing process.

Do you have any practical recommendations for finding like a really good midwife or any other resources that were really helpful to you with your four children? Yeah. Well, that's a great question. I mean, the first thing would be to talk to your friends, you know, um, whenever it comes to like a healthcare provider or, you know, any number of things like that, talk to your friends and get to see who they've used and get their experience.

Um, And then, you know, there's actually, uh, my midwife, her name's Monica Stone, she's here in Austin. Uh, she wrote a book called, Why Home Birth. Uh, I think there's a subtitle there, but, uh, it's Why, Why Choose Home Birth by Monica Stone. Um, and she walks through how to choose a midwife. But, you know, go, go, go.

Sit with, uh, you know, have a, go in, most of them offer free consults, right? Go have a consult with them, meet them. You know, what's most important, it's kind of like a therapist, I feel like, is that you, um, didn't really matter what modality they use. I mean, there's some modalities, right, that I think that are better than others.

Um, but the most important thing is that you feel comfortable with them, that you trust them, that you feel safe with them. Cause when you're in that really, I mean, safety is cultivated within yourself, right? You know, nobody else is going to give that to you, but when you're in a really vulnerable spot, it's important that you, um, you know, that the, the people that are around you, that you feel, you know, safe with them, that you trust them.

Definitely. Yeah. I can't help but think that there's a very similar way of thinking around home birthing as there is birth control. Like, these misconceptions that are built around fear, that seems like it's kind of the system that builds that fear around just getting pregnant. Yep. Yeah. And I didn't even know this until recently that there's only a few days of the month where a woman can actually get pregnant, which it was like, I was like, what?

I didn't, I mean, that's, I mean, that's, that's by design. I think, you know, like we weren't, I was never taught about my cycle or any, I mean, I told you I was given a birth control pill at 16 years old. Right. Um, and you know, whether that's conscious or not, it disconnects us from our life force as, I mean, as a woman, what is.

Um, what else is there? I mean, that's such a primal thing is to be connected to your cycle, um, and you, you know, your period when you're fertile and, you know, the different phases of your cycle, most, and I don't even think still most women are taught about that or, you know, cycle tracking. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely more popular now.

Um, there's more awareness around it because I think, and I would say the majority of my patients, um, don't want to be on birth control, aren't on birth control, it's a minority that I have that are, um, because there's, there is a lot more awareness around that now, but I still don't think there's, um, and the apps certainly help too, but I don't think there's a lot of education and awareness around, around your cycle.

Um, you know, and I guess that kind of harkens back to celebrations and rites of passion, passion, rites of passion. rites of passage, um, and things like that. You know, my kids are in a Waldorf and they're really, um, they're really big on like festivals and celebrations. And I didn't, I used to not understand that, but that's really, really important, um, as a, uh, as a society and a culture.

to mark these different, you know, when you get your first period for that, to have some sort of, that's a right of passions, right. Um, and to have to celebrate that with other women. And that's a great opportunity to learn about these things. Um, you know, and so, uh, talking about that now, actually, I'm definitely going to put that on the roadmap for, you know, with my daughters.

Um, you know, but that was something that was not even, yeah. We didn't even talk about it. So it's like, oh, yeah, you can just get pregnant with that. You need this pill because Without this pill you're gonna get pregnant. You can't have sex, you know Yeah If you don't take the chance to celebrate it or at least acknowledge it then you're inviting in all those negative emotions that could Legitimately live with you for the rest of your life Embarrassment, fear.

Yeah, negative emotions because it was and also, um, you know, just not being in touch with your body, right? That's just another example of how we are so disconnected from our body and our fertility. I mean that's about Reproducing right? Oh my gosh, which is I mean, that's the point really I think of life, right?

Is to procreate and to, you know, uh, Keep moving that forward.