The Meat Mafia Podcast

Jordan Episode Transcript
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[00:00:00] I mean, y'all have probably seen this or experienced it yourself. Like this is a terrible environment to raise in. So there was kind of got down to the last group and it was like, this has got to work or we're done. So. Pulled through. Made it happen. Yeah. Sometimes raising the stakes like that. It's just like.

It makes you operate at a different level. It does. But I also feel like I didn't necessarily do anything different. It just, I found the right people. Nice. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, which is encouraged. It's, you know, some of the lessons learned and all of this is like, just keep doing the things that you know are right.

And eventually it's a numbers game. Yeah. So. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a war of attrition. Don't like overthink things too much. Yeah, totally. All right, let's get into it. I'm going to crack the saps to clap for the edit this time. I like that, but nice. It could sound good. That was a good, yeah. We'll set cheers.

[00:01:00] Yeah. Cheers squad. Cheers. Do you feel like we're sitting back at, uh, where were we the first time we talked natural outside natural grocers? There was a natural grocers there. Oh yeah. Those are ways. So it was like, it was a long time ago. So. Our mutual friend, uh, Devin Levick, I think that's how you pronounce his last name.

We had him on the podcast 2023 and then right after he was like, you got to be my buddy, Jordan in town. He's got this great, better for you. Hydration brand saps. And then the three of us got coffee. And so we've been good buddies for the last year and it's been amazing just to work with you to get to know you as a friend.

And we always love just having founders on that make products that we believe in that can really push the space forward, dude. So it's just been great getting to know you and it's been a long time coming getting you on the show. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's been really cool to see y'all grow your own thing. Like, well, I think what y'all are doing is super impressive.

I actually went and listened to it, um, kind of early on when I started hanging out with Devin [00:02:00] and, um, some of the things he shared in particular, like his upbringing and stuff with his dad, I was like, this guy's legit. But that interview was awesome. So, yeah, I remember walking away from that interview being incredibly pumped up.

Like there's no way not to be when you talk to Devin, he's just an inspiring guy, but. Just like the vulnerability and just him sharing some of the stuff that he shared. I was like, all right, we can, we can do, we had a big dream at that point. I was like, we can do all this stuff. We just need to like stick to it.

So it's cool to surrounding yourself with people like that, you know, dreamers and people are building cool things. I think it's just natural that it rubs off on you. Well, I mean, y'all have the cool opportunity of, you know, getting to hang out with all these really impressive people and learn from them in this setting.

So, um, Um, yeah, just glad to be here and honored that y'all would have me. So no, it's amazing, man. And that's why we, we love podcasting and, you know, short form content is great. Instagram is great. Twitter is great, but it's really [00:03:00] tough to convey that deeper message in a 30 second Instagram clip. It's so much better.

We love just being able to sit down with people like you for 60, 90 minutes and really like learn more about your story. Just try and pull out lessons that can hopefully, Help our audience. I think Devin was a good example of that because you see him as like this rip dude That's traveling all over the world working with all these really cool brands and you don't realize like the adversity that he's overcome as well Yeah, it was a good episode man, but dude, it's uh, it's so good to see you but for our audience Um, hydration is something that we talk a lot about.

I think there's a crazy statistic where like 90 percent of Americans are nutrient deficient. There's something like that. Yeah. So my guess is that if 90 percent of Americans are nutrient deficient, it's probably the same thing from a hydration perspective. And both of us grew up playing baseball and Harry played football and other sports too.

And just like chugging electrolyte content is in there. So I'm sure that was a huge inspiration for you to just push saps out into the world and really teach people about hydration. Right. Yeah, totally. [00:04:00] It's, um, and y'all dive into this way more than I do, but, you know, it's a product of, uh, people having bad diets and our food system just being messed up.

And, um, there's a huge need for, uh, electrolyte supplementation. And I kind of got to witness that firsthand at another hydration brand. And that was what led me to start this. So, um, I definitely agree. Like, um, The, the aisle of isotonics is what they call it, or sports drinks, whatever, is like still one of the most unhealthy aisles in a grocery store.

And it just blows my mind. Cause it's like, these things are promoted as these like healthy things, right? Like all these amazing athletes are drinking these products. So it's gotta be good for me. And the reality is it's just not, um, it's no different than drinking, you know, Cokes and Pepsis and all that.

So. Why are sports drinks so unhealthy? Like it seems like it should be opposite. You know, I, I wish I knew the [00:05:00] answer. It's, it's certainly not just one thing, but I think it goes back to really the creation of, of Gatorade, which was in the sixties. Um, you know, it was for, uh, Florida, the Florida football team.

And at the time it was kind of this revolutionary breakthrough. Um, but if you go back and like, listen to people talk about it, like it tasted terrible. And you had players that were like throwing up after drinking and stuff. So I think just fast forward to where we are today, it started as this very intentional, let's make, let's make hydration more effective.

And it's just morphed into, uh, really just corporate greed. Like let's make this as accessible and as tasty as possible. So we can just pump it in all these different channels, whether it be at a you know, water burger, like getting Powerade on tap. Um, it's really moved away from what it was initially created to be.

So yeah, it's, it's wild to look at [00:06:00] the, um, original Gatorade formula. I put a tweet out about it maybe over a year ago where it was sodium, magnesium, potassium. Um, good quality water, lemon juice, and maybe a few other things contrasted to now it's like 20 plus ingredients and what, do you know what the sugar content is in Gatorade?

It's gotta be like 20, 30 plus. So it's got, it's got four times the, the formula now has four times the amount of sugar that it did when it was first created. Wow. Um, and now, I mean, if you're drinking the just standard stuff, you're looking at probably 40 grams for like 16 ounces, um, which. I mean, yeah, there's a place for carbs when you're working out, but you don't need, that's not what you need clearly.

Um, and so sure they have, you know, sugar free alternatives, but those things have chemicals in there you don't want. So. Taking back to the early innings of you starting saps, like what was going through your head? You see the market, a lot of these unhealthy drinks. What kind of things are you [00:07:00] thinking about when you were just getting gone?

Yeah. So I was at, I was at another hydration brand, um, was early on that team helped them experience a lot of success. And what I realized was that, um, just like normal average people were reaching out to us saying, Hey, I had stumbled on this product. I started drinking it every single day and I feel amazing.

And it was this kind of aha moment. Like, wow, like more people need this. Um, it doesn't matter if you're a super active person or not. Like you, you just need more electrolytes in your diet. Cause we're not getting it from the foods that we're eating. And, um, ended up leaving that company was kind of trying to figure out what to do next, but still in the back of my mind was like, I know this space pretty well.

I see. Um, the new products that are coming out. I see kind of what people are looking for and my business partner, um, Trey approached me and was like, Hey, let's go, let's go [00:08:00] build an electrolyte brand. I know you can do it. I'll put up some capital. Um, and so it really all stemmed from this idea of like seeing firsthand.

Consumers have an experience with a product realizing like. there's a real need for this. Let's go make something that's better for people. That's actually more natural that, um, has some awesome ingredients in it that more people need. Love that. Yeah, it was pretty simple. Like great idea, right? Business partner didn't overcomplicate it.

Just push and got a product to market. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm like passionate about hydration, right? Like I, I care about helping people, um, live a healthier life and, You know, kind of feeling better in the day to day basis. And this seemed like the right niche to go after and try and accomplish that with how, um, how'd you kind of bridge the gap from being, working for somebody else to now being a first time founder, just like [00:09:00] really taking all the risk yourself.

Like it's a massive leap to take, but curious how you kind of stomach that. And then just like thought through kind of getting the ball rolling. I mean, every day it's. Every day you're stomaching it, right? Like you're, you're taking gut punches every day. So you just have to accept that you're lucky. Yeah.

I, I going back before that, like I, I'd always kind of wanted to start something. Um, I went to a business school here in Austin that was super focused on entrepreneurship. Um, Did like some startup work post that, um, in different industries. And then kind of settled into CPG. Like it was. At the time when I got involved, like still like super high growth, massive opportunity, you're seeing these just like crazy revenue multiples.

Um, and I think, um, even back then, like this kind of better for you category was just starting to catch waves. And, um, [00:10:00] it just seemed like a really fun industry to be a part of. I think it's this idea of kind of meshing analytical thinking with creative problem solving. and that's, that's kind of my sweet spot.

And so, um, I didn't, you know, 10 years ago, I wasn't like, Oh, I want to start a hydration brand, but it just through life experiences led me to that. Got it. Yeah. So it sounds like you kind of have this internal motivation to eventually start your own thing. It was just a matter of really finding that right opportunity, right business partner.

And you found that, which is amazing. Yeah. Um, you know, I remember when Devin had connected us over email, And the first thing that stood out was like the red just like pops on the website. But then the unique thing is like the red can that you guys have. And I feel like so many hydration products, whether they're healthy or not, it's either a stick pack, it's either a bottle.

I think just you guys not only having an amazing formulation, but just like the drinkability of it and just the overall look and aesthetic is super interesting. What made you decide to choose a can versus some of these other options that might have [00:11:00] been cheaper, easier to create. Yeah. I mean, we, early on we had plenty of people we were pitching to, to raise money.

They were like, guys, I just, I think the can's the wrong choice. If you had it in a bottle, I would invest like, we definitely have dealt with, um, plenty of kind of pushback on that front. But in reality is, it's like, You, you have to be different in this, in this industry, and it's very hard to differentiate yourself.

And it really felt like the puck was headed towards more sustainable packaging, particularly aluminum. Um, and you know, liquid death had started really taking off at that time. So it just seemed like a no brainer. Let's go be. Really like the first, um, active hydration drink in aluminum. Um, and that opened up some great opportunities for us that, you know, customers that are looking for more sustainable packaging, but also, um, kind of just [00:12:00] like the social element of it.

Um, I think there's something special about holding a can in your hands when you're with friends versus this like bulky, ugly plastic bottle. So. Um, that was, that was kind of the initial thought process there. Are there any other hydration drinks that are in a can that are doing, doing well? Yeah, there's, there's been a few that have popped up.

Um, some guys out of California named leisure, they're, they're killing it right now. Um, there's a newer brand called local weather. It's got some like celebrity backing, but that's also, it's like an aluminum bottle. It's not actually a can. So, you know, Um, but there's going to be more, you know, it's, it's kind of like green space.

No one's really thought to put electrolytes in a can for a long time. And, um, I think it's a product of people like us wanting to just consume electrolytes more casually, not just like during a workout, um, is really what's driving that. Definitely. Yeah. I feel [00:13:00] like most people don't think to just drink like a saps or a saps like product, just electrolytes during the day.

But. But even the course of anyone's day, you're going to be losing electrolytes and your cognitive performance will take a hit if you aren't hydrated the right way. So totally just for like anyone, if you're sitting at a desk, like this type of product is totally worth investing in because it will make you feel better.

And then there's also adaptogens in there too. So it's like how to get the hydration benefits and the adaptogen benefits all in one. Well, the average person doesn't know, you know, the stuff that's causing them to kind of flush electrolytes out of their system, right? Like you drink three cups of coffee, you're going to end up peeing out about a thousand milligrams of sodium from that.

Um, so lots of caffeine intake, you know, depending on what you're eating. I mean, you could just be outside sweating with how hot it is right now. And like, yeah, you need to, you need to put refuel with some electrolytes. Um, and I think. Um, [00:14:00] some of that has to do with just like the misconception around salt and y'all know this pretty well, but, um, yeah, it's, it certainly has to be a part of your, your daily routine if you want to be feeling and performing your best.

Yeah, it's crazy. All the health misconceptions and the fear that so many people have around sodium and salt in general. And both Harry and I, and a lot of people that listen to the podcast have noticed that the more sodium, the more electrolytes they consume, the better that they feel like the keto flu is really common when you're transitioning to a low carb diet and we think that's just an electrolyte deficiency because anytime I feel off or have a headache, as soon as I take, you know, drink one of these beverages or have, you know, just throw salt in my water or whatever it is, I immediately feel better really quickly.

So I think that's spot on. Yeah, my wife. I think she gets annoyed and I've been doing this before we started SAS, but I was always like, uh, she'd be like, Oh, my head's hurting. Or I'm feeling really tired this afternoon. Like, have you had any electrolytes? She's [00:15:00] like, please stop. Yeah, I get it. I get it. So it's so true though.

I mean, I have to catch myself on that. I'll be like, I'm tired or I'm not, you know, in a weird head space. And it's like, yeah, I haven't had any water with, and it's not just water. It's water with the. Yeah. Minerals in it. You know, we, we get water mostly from like the supermarket these days. It's not from a spring.

So we need to actually have those minerals in the water in order to get the effect of the hydration. And yeah, I mean, you're starting to see new water brands pop up that they're, they're sourcing it from wells. It's got these, um, trace minerals in it. It's really exciting. Like I think people need that, but it's not always the most practical thing to be buying the only water you drink, like in that format.

So. So having something like this, and honestly, I hope, I hope there's kind of like a macro shift away from caffeine in general and energy drinks to more of this stuff. Cause I think like this stuff could [00:16:00] actually be more kind of sustainable than just pounding a red bull and then feeling a crash afterwards.

Cause you know, like you're saying, most people, you just need electrolytes. You don't really need caffeine to kind of feel that boost. That's actually really exciting to think about throwing in a little bit of, um, like natural green tea extract. And then the size of the can is similar to a monster or some of those like rain or some of those other beverages.

So I think if you put it in that section, people would immediately be like, Oh wow, this is a better for you. Caffeine drink. That's super interesting to think about. Well, we're only trying to take one industry on right now. So maybe, uh, maybe if somebody buys us, they can, they can foray into the energy world.

Sell that dream to somebody else. Yeah.

Well, one of the things that Harry and I appreciate about the friendship that we have with you is just, I don't know. I feel like we have this really cool, honest dynamic of sharing wins, sharing losses, tough times. And I think as a founder, it's so important to find [00:17:00] other friends to spend time with that are founders because I think it's very easy to feel isolated and maybe, you know, honestly just feel like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders at times too.

And that's something that we've already appreciated about you is like just being able to connect with another great founder, another guy that's got a heart for Jesus and just being honest in that relationship. But I'm just curious. What are some of the biggest things that you've learned about yourself, um, since starting SAPS and doing something entrepreneurial?

Because I feel like it's the best tool possible to actually learn about yourself and your flaws and your strengths and all that good stuff. This is where we start to psychoanalyze you. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you could, you could spend a bunch of money like going to, yeah, these like fancy, yeah, that, which, you know, probably need to do that, um, after doing this.

Yeah. You could, uh, you know, go to these like wellness retreats or, you know, find yourself types of things, or you could start a business

and you're going to learn a ton about yourself from that. Um, man, I [00:18:00] think like, it's been, it's been like a year and a half since we launched, you know, made a lot of mistakes.

Um, but through that comes learnings. And so, um, yeah, I think like you, you kind of develop a sense of, you Confidence at a level that you just never would achieve unless you go out and kind of do something yourself um You know the other thing is like just You reach a point you're like, I just don't care what anybody else thinks And that's like a really freeing place to be as somebody who's a people pleaser I'm natural People pleaser want to like make people happy and put on a good appearance um I think like The other things that really stick out is, is surrounding yourself with the right people, both in the business and then to your point, like community.

Um, you know, that's so, that's such an obvious thing, but like you are going to grow so much [00:19:00] more if you're spending time with other, um, like minded people that are, have this kind of growth mindset. And, um, Um, really no matter what you're doing, like your home life's got to be good or like that professional thing that you're focused on is going to crater.

And so I've had to learn a ton about, um, being a good spouse through, through this. Um, we had our first kid through this too, and learning how to be a dad and, um, kind of set guardrails and priorities and all that. So, so you decided to have a kid and start a business in the same year. You know, it wasn't necessarily the, uh, the most well timed thing, but they always say there's never the right time to have a kid.

Totally. We, um, we had like committed to kind of a timeline of like, okay, we're going to start, you know, trying to have a kid around this time. And I was still at the last company. So then, um, my wife got pregnant as we're, you know, just starting this [00:20:00] thing. And then we decided to move here to Austin. And so it's just been kind of a whirlwind sense.

And, um, you know, the day after my son was born, I was like taking calls with VCs and I was like, why am I doing this to myself? This stupid, I had zero sleep, no zero energy. Um, shouldn't have been on that call, but yeah, you just learn how to like, go with the flow, focus on the present and just be really kind of in the moment where you are.

Cause as soon as you start thinking about all the things on your to do list and all the things you got to do for your kid and um, that can get overwhelming pretty quick. Yeah. Yeah. When you're speaking, it reminds me, I saw this clip of Tucker Carlson from a couple months ago and he was basically telling men to like have more kids and his, his thought process was that.

Men don't reach their full potential until they actually become a dad or become a father. And as a new parent, do you [00:21:00] find, do you see any truth in that quote? Um, yeah, for sure. I think, like, I think when you're, before you become a dad, you're still, you're still trying to, like, figure out what it means to be a man and, um, Like, who you want to be.

And then you get this. beautiful moment of, you know, this thing that came from you into the world. And you're like, wow, this is, nothing else really matters. Like we have our family now, and then I have a life outside of family, but everything that I do to make myself better and what I pursue from like a professional standpoint should have a really positive impact on my kid.

And um, I think that kind of mindset, It, it turns you more into, you know, a man that you, you hope to be. And you're kind of forced, forced to do that, whether you like it or not. [00:22:00] So, yeah, I love that answer. And Brett said something earlier about protecting your energy as an entrepreneur. And I think you said, you also said like you're protecting your focus.

I feel like. It's such a important lesson to learn, especially as you start to weigh the other factors of life, which is, you know, having a young child and having a spouse to take, like, to, um, have a relationship with and take care of the relationship. And there's just so much other stuff happening behind the scenes of most entrepreneurs that I think, like, you know, people can see the SAP scan in the store, but they don't understand that, you know, there's a small team behind it that's doing a lot to make it happen.

And so one of the things that Brett and I feel like we've learned is just like the importance of protecting your energy and making sure that when you are saying yes to things, you're putting into the right stuff. And, um, I think that also to that, like trying yourself with the right people. It's huge.

Well, and, and one way to protect your energy, this is something else I've learned is like, it doesn't necessarily [00:23:00] mean like time allotted to something. It's like, how do I build in things to my schedule that are, that are building me up? And kind of reigniting my, my fuel for this business. Cause if I'm just, if I'm just doing like in the weeds all day, you know, uh, in a spreadsheet or putting fires out, like you're going to burn out over time.

So schedule, schedule time in your day for stuff like this, or for me, like getting out in the market and talking to customers, um, building relationships there, like that's, that is like the best reminder. Um, for me to, to kind of remember why I'm doing this. And that helps with this idea of, of burning the candle at both ends that inevitably you just like have to figure out that balance, balance if you're starting something.

Yeah. And I think too, to your point, you know, starting something and, and being a founder, like you just have to get good at almost, um, prior prioritizing the right [00:24:00] things, I would say. And so what I've been doing a lot of reflection the last couple of weeks and I'm similar to you and I think you are As well just kind of being a people pleaser And so with your network people asking for connections or intros or certain things which I enjoy to do But I remember I just kind of made a list of everything across our three businesses and like really keyed out the priorities And i'm like, why are you prioritizing this thing just to help someone else when you have all these other like mission critical things That you could be doing that you're not doing so I don't know, just kind of like a thought or amusing, but I'm just thinking about that as you're speaking, just getting like really dialed in.

And, um, I honestly just, I just started keeping a really simple Google doc of just all my tasks that I need to do across the businesses. And then like those connections or friends kind of just fall in the miscellaneous bucket. So once I do all those other things, then I'll get to the miscellaneous bucket on like a Saturday or Sunday or something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's hard. Like I, I think something that gives me a lot of joy and fulfillment is, um, you know, connecting people or somebody [00:25:00] reach out, reaches out and wants help with something like, absolutely. I'd love to help you. Um, but you certainly can't do that stuff all the time. So they're just, and I don't think it's black and white.

It's like, there's seasons of craziness where you just gotta be dialed in. You're going to be working more hours, but you just got to remember. Seasons to kind of take a step back, take a deep breath, remind people in your life that you're grateful for them, show appreciation. Um, and you just have to kind of navigate those seasons as they come.

One of the things that I wanted to talk about with you is capital raising. I feel like you might be able to write the book on it at this point, but Just for any young entrepreneurs out there who are just getting started, any tips and tricks just in terms of navigating this first dollars that you're bringing in the door.

Oh boy. Um, I'd never raised money before this. So this was a new [00:26:00] experience. I, I'm sure I made every mistake in the book. Um, you know, I think, I think the biggest thing is like just get ready for rejection. It's a numbers game. You're going to be turned down a lot. Um, but don't let that kind of make you question yourself rather try and learn from those conversations and just continually approve.

Um, and you're going to figure it out eventually, but if, if the idea has any sort of, um, merit to it and you have experienced what you're doing, like. you're, you're, you're going to end up, you know, finding the money for the business. Um, but you can't, you can't let kind of the rejection and the negativity, if you will, from people that aren't interested, just eat you away.

Cause it will. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to, I was going to add, there's definitely something to just like having to put yourself out there. [00:27:00] It's you're so vulnerable with just your business, your vision and having people just reject you. Reject you for whatever reason. Yeah. So it is humbling, but also it's so sweet when you do get those yeses.

Like when we went out and raised money, I remember like the second or third check that came in for noble, I was just like, for whatever reason, just having a long day. And it came in, I was like, wow, this is the, just made everything better and felt great. Yeah. Gave us a gust of wind. So there is something too about assembling that team of investors that really believes in what you're doing and finding.

I would almost frame it as just like finding the team that believes in you. They're out there and go assemble that team and you'll feel great once you have them aligned with your vision. Yeah. And it's crazy too. Like the, the checks you end up getting or, you know, the investors were like relationships that you build, they end up coming and.

Ways you wouldn't have expected. Like you could take a call with somebody and you're like, Oh man, it's money in [00:28:00] the bank. Like they're already in a CPG. They know the space. They're going to love this hard. No. And then you come around to somebody that doesn't even necessarily know the space, but you just really connect on a personal level.

And that, that matters so much more. Um, I think if you can show potential investors that. You're a person of character and You are relatable and like you like to have fun and you enjoy some of the same things like that that type of bond Is a lot more meaningful than You know some VC or something like that.

That's just looking to make a quick buck and they know the industry. Mm hmm Yeah, what you said is Like almost word for word what Harry and I had experienced last summer because similar to you It was our first time raising capital for noble And so we really we were we had done like 25k We're basically pre revenue at that point and we were you know worried about our projections and potential pnl and really nitty gritty around the [00:29:00] numbers And then after the first couple conversations We were both amazed how many investors were just like hearing our story about How we met playing college baseball doing the iron man doing 200 episodes of the podcast at the time And that's what they really wanted to dig into and it felt they obviously cared about the numbers, too So , but that would, they were almost like betting on us as their horses almost, versus anything else.

So I'm curious, you, you touched on the relationship piece. Was there anything else that sur surprised you during the capital raising process too, that you maybe had preconceived notions of that Yeah. Surprised you when you actually went through and made the rounds? Um, um, , this was more of a negative surprise, but it was the amount of people that.

Will commit money and then end up backing out. Mm. Yes, I mean we had a lot of money committed at different times that didn't end up coming through and Whenever that happens, it would just like tear me up. It was [00:30:00] really upsetting and frustrating because you'd put all this work into it. Um, but at the end of the day, it's like, no, you just, just let it rub off.

Like that stuff happens and you just have to move on and, and figure out ways to kind of fight through the mental battles that come through that experience. What are some of the things that investors would say about your brand? Like one of the things that when I see your guys brand, I'm like, this is such a sleek looking, you know, I like the throwback, the vintage style that you guys have, like what sort of things were resonating with them just on the brand level.

Um, yeah, I mean, I think, um, people saw it as like new, unique and different, um, which, you know, a lot of stuff in our category is not, it's kind of stayed. It's funny. Like you can look at, um, look at prime, for example, like, you know, they've had a ton of success. Yeah. But then you see all these like copycat products that are starting to come on.

So even the same bottle is [00:31:00] literally the same thing with a different logo. Right. Yeah. Messy just created. Yeah, it's called Moss. Oh yeah. It is the same thing. The bottle is the exact same, same color, same flavors. So I think, I mean, in some ways it can be challenging cause you're, you're trying to go against the grain and do something different and, you know, Somebody that sees that as like, eh, maybe that's a little bit too risky, but that also means that you're differentiated and, um, there's almost like a higher ceiling cause you're trying to do something different.

So I think the, the reaction of the brand was generally really positive. Um, the biggest question people had was like, how are you going to kind of educate the customer and make sure they're aware that. They know what this is and why it's so great, um, because you are being different. And so once you, you start having those [00:32:00] questions and thoughts from people, then you can figure out a way to kind of navigate and answer those questions.

And I do feel like the space that we're in is still somewhat niche, but I do really feel like whether it's hydration, sourcing meat, food quality, et cetera, I do feel like that stuff's definitely starting to become more mainstream because of social media. Like I don't think quite as many people now versus five years ago have the like same aversion assault that we used to have as well too.

Like I feel like you're the market trend. It's, it's really good timing for that. And then you also make something that's really healthy ingredients, but also tastes delicious too. Like you genuinely enjoy sipping on it as well. Yeah, it's funny. Um, you know, it's like a lot of middle aged men that I, I meet when I'm networking or whatnot.

They like want to just talk to me about biohacking and health stuff. And I'm like, where, where did this come from? You know, but it's, I mean, it's people like y'all and it's, it's the day of aspirates of the world. People that are putting out a lot of interesting [00:33:00] content that makes you think about stuff.

And the more you kind of dig in, the more you realize, yeah, like I need to make some lifestyle changes. And it's cool to see that trend really taking place right now. Yeah. What would you say are some of the most special wins for you that stick out over the last year and a half. Um, man, I think I, I, I often need to like zoom out a little bit and look back and, and kind of recognize the wins.

Cause that's not how my brain works. My brain is like more like, Oh, we have a problem here. We have a problem here. Let's go solve this. Um, I mean the coolest thing, it. That happened last year was, um, we got a call from Nike, uh, headquarters and they're like, Hey guys, we're, we're trying to, um, find a replacement for Gatorade on campus.

We really like your product. Send us some samples, you know, we'll taste it, give a shot. And they ended up coming back to us and they're like, all right, great. We're [00:34:00] moving forward. Um, this will be throughout the campus. We're gonna replace Gatorade. And that was like. It's such a cool moment. You know, this company that you, you kind of worship growing up.

Right. Um, so getting out there to Beaverton and like doing a launch day with them and realizing like some of the top athletes in the world are drinking our product right now as they're like testing, you know, new products and whatnot at Nike. Um, that was a really cool experience. Um, I think outside of that, like it's.

It's kind of finding traction in the small things, right? Like it's easy to get really excited about these like big sexy headlines or you win this award or whatnot. Um, but I think just, um, when you're, you're in the day to day grind and you're like working on a specific retail account or you're, you're trying to like refine your sales process.

Starting to [00:35:00] see how the little tweaks you're making are they're actually working and like, Oh, I'm now seeing that our velocities at the central market have tripled because we just, you know, tweaked a couple of things here. Um, that, that to me is like the coolest experience you can have as a early stage business owner.

Cause you're, you're launching something that you really have no idea how people are going to react to it. And then you're kind of like problem solving until you start to see those winds come in. Yeah, that's, that's a really interesting perspective. I feel like just going back and going through the wins is such a hard thing to do as a founder.

Yeah. Cause there's, there's more losses than wins for sure. Yeah. Do you, um, do you have a vision for who you would like to represent your brand? So I was thinking like Nike had Tiger and they've had Jordan. Can you think of someone that would be a good [00:36:00] fit for saps? We get asked this a lot. I think, um, I don't think it's somebody that's like this peak performance athlete because that's not necessarily who this drink was created for.

Like, this is for your average active person that's looking to be healthier and make better decisions with what they're putting their body. Um, And that's what we really care about is, it's just getting people outside, moving your body and, and however that looks, um, they gotta, they gotta have a little bit of grit to them, right?

Like they gotta, they gotta be maybe not like John Daly grit, but they gotta be a little bit, you know, a little bit of a character, not just kind of like tiger for most of his career was a little bit boring until all the scandals happened. So This past year, I feel like Scotty's become the Scotty Shuffler's become the guy, you know, he went to jail for a night.

He's got a little bit of grit to him. He's he's laid back, casual guy, but he just beats [00:37:00] everybody. I could see Scotty Shuffler just getting out of jail, sipping a saps, going around. I could see that. Yeah. Just have a saps, get dialed in for the round, go six under, no big deal. I love it. I think golf could be the perfect sport for you guys too, because it's like, you're going to sweat while you play.

You can actually drink a can and walk down the course or put it in your cart or whatever. It's almost like finding the right athlete. That's got grit. Like you said, kind of dialed in and cares about electrolytes and nutrition and things like that. Yeah. It's every time we do stuff in the golf space, I'm like, I think this product is like meant for golf.

Um, cause you, yeah, it's, you're, you're not running around, right. It's not like, um, A can is the most convenient thing for playing football or baseball or whatever. Um, so yeah, I think it's really these like social sports running has kind of become a big social thing, right? Um, it's the new dating app. It's a new dating app.

You know, pickleball has become that way. And I think [00:38:00] golf golf's got these really interesting, like current of let's make this sport, not as stuffy as it used to be. Um, let's make it more fun. And, um, I think SAPS fits in perfectly in the golf world. I feel like all those sports you just said, though, too.

Like, I remember when we were at Meteor, that guy who came up to us and was like, Oh, you're the founder of SAPS? Like, me and my whole cycling group just are obsessed with your guys product. And that got me thinking. I was like, when would a cyclist think to use the SAPS on a camp? But it's like, they will ride to a place and then, you know, Crack open a drink, hang out for a little bit.

So it made so much sense when they said it, but it's cool just seeing the different use cases for your product. I'm sure in the different categories, but I agree. I feel like golf would be golf would be really cool to see saps blow up. I, it, that conversation actually made me think about, um, early on when we first launched, there's a notable VC was kind of [00:39:00] like following us and I was emailing him asking for feedback.

And one of the things he said, it was like. You're kind of replacing workout beers in a way. Um, and so I think there's something to Like cracking open a saps post your cycling ride or post whatever as this, um Social tonic if you will that has all these functional benefits. Um, so yeah, I think there's definitely something to that I like that.

Yeah, I think I think that I think there's so much of this Healthier drinking that's happening and people want to do like the social activities together And then have something to socialize with after you play the sport uh golf is just naturally so good at doing that like during a round but Pickleball and all these other things.

It's like they're primed for a drink like this I think well and that's so cool to if you think about you know The ramifications of that played out on like a big scale, right you have instead [00:40:00] of The like social fun thing being for young people to just go to a bar and sit there and drink beer together they're actually Getting outside and doing something fun and active with friends.

Um, Like I think I think the world would be in a better place if more people were uh socializing in that way then Sitting at home playing video games or going to a bar and getting blackout drunk. Yeah, so Yeah, it's probably a blessing and a challenge to have like a really um Like almost multi purposing product where the challenge might just be as a founder, you're probably like, how did you, it would just be simpler if like all the golfers just jumped at this.

So we're like kind of just showing me exactly where I should be marketing towards. And then the blessing is like, it's cool to be able to help people that want to hydrate after pick a ball or golf or be like a great non alcoholic beverage too. So it's like, there's probably good and challenge that comes from that, right?

Yeah. We get people that tell us all the time and it's, basic business one on one is like, [00:41:00] Figure out your customer zero in on that, um, and, and really attack that space. Right. So it is a challenging with a, a drink that can be in all these different settings, um, can appeal to a lot of different people is to really zero in.

Um, and so I, you know, we're still, I think we're still in the phase of like testing out these different niches that we think this works in and kind of continuing to kind of refine it from there. Okay. I still think you should, you should put like a crazy pitch together for Scotty Shuffler. Just something that's, that's wild to get his attention.

We'll see. We'll see. I feel like Bryce would be interested too, honestly. Cause he's like really into performance as well and he's streaming all that content too. Did you see his round that he played with Trump a couple weeks ago? Yeah. It's wild. The world is crazy. Yeah.

And, and like he's, he's built this massive fan base in golf [00:42:00] from doing that stuff. So he's a big chocolate milk guy. So, yeah, maybe we can squeeze in between chocolate milk. Bryson is? Yeah. It doesn't surprise me. What if he's on a raw milk train? It might be. Noble chocolate and some raw milk. I feel like a lot of athletes are really like coming awake to this like alternative, uh, They've been awake to it for a while, but just like the alternative health movement, raw milk, more meat.

I feel like that animal based lifestyle is definitely picking up. What are y'all's thoughts on that trend and lifestyle? Um, having a place in like mainstream America, cause it seems like it's, it's definitely more, uh, almost like a luxury to, to kind of consume those types of things and surround your, your diet that way.

Yeah, it's, it's a really good point. I think a luxury from the standpoint of it might cost you more time on the front end in terms of sourcing these like really high quality foods might cost [00:43:00] you more money on the front end. Um, I do think that like over the course of your life, if you're putting those high quality nutrient foods in your body, you are saving money by just, you know, it's tough to say that to somebody who's struggling to.

You know, pay all their bills and things like that. Um, yeah, I do think it's a luxury, but I don't think there's a more important thing to be spending money on than your health. And I think a lot of people find different ways to just burn through cash and other ways. So I would just, I would first just like check that, like, you know, if you're the type of person who's, you know, 25 years old or, you know, 30 years, 30 years old, no family.

And you're up until, you know, 3 a. m. Four nights a week drinking. Well, maybe you can make some adjustments to your priorities and start to prioritize some of that stuff. And then if you have a family, I think it's probably a whole different conversation because there's, you know, kids to feed and that gets pretty expensive pretty quickly, but, um, I do think [00:44:00] that the trend in general towards more nutrient dense foods and healthier foods is just going to have to happen.

Like 88 percent of people are metabolically unhealthy. There's a. Just a financial bomb that's going to go off from the health decisions that we're making on a daily basis as a nation. I think that there's really no way to turn that around until people start to make these choices. Um, you know, more, more of a priority.

Um, I saw an interesting stat the other day. It was like 10 percent of the country is what creates 90 percent of the, um, health costs. Yeah. And that, that just like, I've, it's crazy when you think about it. And if you, if you change that 10%, which they're going to have to make those own decisions for themselves.

Right. But like, what kind of impact does that have? It's, it's massive. And as somebody who's like, I've spent a lot [00:45:00] of time in small towns. I've got a foster brother lives in like a really rural place and you, you drive through these towns and it's like. They got a Popeye's there. They have McDonald's and that's it.

Um, it's discouraging, but it's also like, man, there's just such a cool opportunity to potentially really change like future generations through healthier products, um, that can be mass distributed to places all over the country and offering it at affordable price. It's like. it's not necessarily the way you're going to make a ton of money, but, um, yeah, I think it could do a lot of good.

So, yeah, totally. Yeah. To your point, I mean, you know, being in Austin, Miami, New York, LA, like you don't understand what a food desert actually is like. You go to some of these, um, these places like you're talking about in the Midwest or even when we visited white oak pastures, which is this really well known regenerative ranch down in Bluffton, Georgia, just driving [00:46:00] through like the belt down there, just these old agrarian towns that are essentially abandoned.

And then the encouraging thing is that because I think the internet has democratized so much of this information Consumers are showing enough demand that brands like walmart or some of these other large chain grocery stores Are starting to carry grass finished beef and like you can debate whether that's um, you know A by product of the industrial model or it's greenwashed.

It probably is but either way You're still able to get some of these products weighing more nutrient dense products in these big food stores. And that's encouraging to us because it just shows that, you know, your customer, your customer vote does matter. And then also I was thinking about this when Harry was talking, we're not trained to look at foods on an ounce per ounce basis.

So someone will be like, Oh, you know, 10 pound of ground beef is too expensive. I'll just go for the lace potato chips cause it's three 75 or whatever. But if you compare the lace chips on a per ounce basis with the red meat, It actually comes out to like almost identical, which is really interesting. [00:47:00] And then when you're looking at it on terms of like the nutrients you're deriving from both of those foods, it's no, it's a no brainer that the red is way more cost effective too.

And we all, you know, we all choose to spend money on different things. Like our parents spend money different on us as millennials. And I think a lot of millennials like are willing to advocate a good part of their budget towards these good quality foods. And that's encouraging to us. Yeah. Yeah. The tide's shifting for sure.

It's been cool to see even like high school kids pull up our can, look at the ingredient, like, we're like, Oh wow, there's mushrooms in here. And they're like, they, they get it. And they immediately are drawn to it. Like, Oh, this is way cooler than Gatorade. Yes. So. Yeah. I wrote a stat the other day, I think it was, um, the millennial category, but 56 percent of millennials run on a weekly basis.

I thought it was like pretty crazy. That's a, that's a lot, that's a lot, that's a lot of miles being logged. Um, but I think that's a step in the right direction. that generation just saw so many people just get sick through ultra [00:48:00] processed foods. And I think that ultimately they just want to be healthy.

Um, like the consumption of alcohol is also way down in that age group as well. It's like pretty interesting just seeing these trends kind of come to life and, um, people start to prioritize their health. Yeah, I think that's good for us. It's funny how the, even the three of us are calling it a trend when it's like, these are just the things that people did intuitively hundreds of years ago that we've just lost our way the last 50 years.

We're starting to see this like reemergence of what we were ultimately supposed to be doing and realizing that like actually learning from the past is the right thing, which is very counterintuitive to a lot of humans. But with the quality of food and a lot of these lifestyle practices, we found that it's just absolutely true.

Yeah. I mean, the stuff that is causing a lot of the problems is relatively new and, you know, the grand scheme of history. So, um, granted, like we also have, we have it really good right now, probably better than ever in history. So, um, [00:49:00] yeah, it's, it's going to be interesting to see how, how those changes take effect and hopefully, you know, for the better for a lot of people.

Yeah. Do you have any resources that you've pulled on over the last year and a half, whether it's podcasts, books, or just like a an entrepreneur that you've pulled like as a source of inspiration, anything like that, that you, uh, you continue to go back to? I mean, there's a lot of good like business people, you know, to, that I listened to and, and get wisdom from, but honestly, like, I feel like the stuff that's been the most impactful is all spiritual.

Um, just cause we've had, you know, we've had, um, challenges and gone through hard things starting this, like that, that kind of brings you back to a place of knowing your need for, um, something greater than yourself and, and kind of coming back to Jesus and spending time [00:50:00] in prayer and in time in the word.

Um, the, uh, the author. John Mark Comer, he's been, uh, his stuff has been like huge for me lately, um, because I think so much of this is just mental battles, um, and so if you're, if you're filling yourself up with truth, um, and perspective on stuff that actually matters, um, it helps you go about your day and realize, like, The world's going to be okay if this business doesn't work out.

Like there's other electrolyte products out there. I'm not saving, I'm not saving the world, but like I am, uh, I've been given this opportunity to bless people. And, um, how can we do that in a way that's glorifying and, um, is also like spiritually healthy for myself and the people that are around me.

Couldn't imagine trying to do what you're doing without a spiritual backbone. It's crazy to think about how many entrepreneurs might be [00:51:00] atheistic. I would think if anything, entrepreneurship should pull you closer to God because that being an entrepreneur is an act of faith because Jordan has this vision in his head of what he thinks he can turn saps into.

And you're the only one that sees it. No one else sees it. There's no tangible proof besides the thoughts and feelings that you have in your mind. Well, we've seen, we've seen so many guys that, you know, generations above us have reached this kind of pinnacle of success and they're just like miserable people.

Um, so we have that, um, kind of guardrail or, uh, Or like, um, thing to look to and say, all right, no matter how great this business does, that's not going to make me happy. Um, I've got to focus on the stuff that is going to make me filled, fulfilled and happy, and hopefully the other stuff comes along the way.

Yeah, we were, uh, we were part of a manuscript this morning and one of the, one of the topics we touched on [00:52:00] briefly, it was just finding quiet time. and having quiet time with the Lord in the morning or at night or just during the middle of the day. And I feel like that concept is very foreign to, you know, the, like Brad said, like someone who's an atheist and an entrepreneur, it's like maybe they have their other practice like meditation or something else.

But, um, pairing that with scripture and just a community, you really start to see the fruits of really diving deep down the spiritual path. of following Jesus when you have a community around you who are pushing you forward and you have this vision, it's like, you know where your identity lies and you on a daily basis are reminded that this mission is, you know, part of, part of your mission of following the Lord.

So there's just so much power. I think, you know, I, I could not imagine where we would be without having someone recently, um, you know, started walking with Jesus, but it's, uh, yeah. Yeah, [00:53:00] quite the adventure being on both those journeys at the same time. Well, i'm sure you all see it too. Like when you interact with Other entrepreneurs or you know people that are just killing it here in town that aren't necessarily believers like they're looking for the answer in other ways and that could be um You know experimenting with like psychedelics or you know, whatever And they're finding relief in that From What you're talking about these like pressures of needing to succeed and meet these kind of standards that we hold from ourselves.

So having Having something like that for us that is, you know Rooted in our faith that that drives our our decisions and how we think about things is super important Yeah, amen Brother, what's the best way for people to connect with you and saps if they're interested in just like ordering some or finding some at a local retail store?[00:54:00]

Yeah, we're on Amazon. You can get us on prime saps, original. com saps. Original is our, our social handle as well. Um, yeah, if you're, if you're in Austin or in some Texas cities that have central market, we're there too. So, um, hopefully. Hopefully if you haven't had it yet, you'll, uh, you'll get a free can after a run.

Um, cause we donate a ton of product all the time, but, uh, if not, yeah, those are good places to buy it. So, so lemon, lime, blackberry, citrus, and passion fruit. Yeah. Those are, those are three great flavors. Yeah. And it's, it's kind of a spectrum of. I feel like we have at least one flavor that everybody likes.

Um, you may not like blackberry or you may not like, um, lemon lime, but we tried to kind of hit all the flavor spectrums and we're always refining it. So, um, we're actually in the middle of changing up the formulation a little bit and, um, [00:55:00] hopefully we'll have some new flavors to launch soon too. Thanks for coming on brother.

Yeah, great. Thanks for having me.