The Meat Mafia Podcast

Part 2 Ammous
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Speaker 3: [00:00:00] Ahmad, what is, um, how do you, how are you viewed by peers and colleagues being public and advocating for carnivory and Bitcoin and all the things that you love to talk about?

Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, I don't have that many fiat doctor friends, uh, thankfully. Love that. Uh, yeah. The ones that, that I work with, I just, I, I don't talk about these things at work. It's just, uh, it's completely, uh, the hospital is probably some of the, probably the, the unhealthiest environment to be in is the hospital for patients and for people that work there.

So you are under artificial lights all day? Uh, no fresh air. Uh, in the workroom. In, in where, where I work, there's always like. Cookies and chocolates and and doctors are just snacking on them all all day. They come in at eight a. m. and they have a doughnut, you know, so it's it's something I don't like talking [00:01:00] about.

They, they make fun of, oh, this guy just doesn't eat sugar and doesn't eat bread. And I joke about it and then we just. Yeah, okay, do whatever you want. I'm gonna do me and They keep complaining about gaining weight and being unhealthy and unfit and They also complain about oh, this guy is weird because he doesn't eat sugar so but I mean, there's no point in arguing with them and it's it's it's it's it's more difficult with physicians because Like, there's nothing in their curriculum that tells, that says anything about being healthy and health, health, being healthy, improve, involves fixing their diet.

So well, if, if my boss and my textbook don't say anything about diet, then why should I be concerned? And it's, it's, it's that, uh, It's that limiting, unfortunately.

Speaker 3: I would just think that if I was [00:02:00] a fellow MD and I was 30 pounds overweight, and I see this other colleague that I have, who's in amazing shape, who's got great blood work, who's doing things differently.

I would want to learn from that person. It reminds me a lot of when I first went carnivore, I was working a FinTech job in New York city. And I would literally be working with engineers that had degrees from MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Harvard. That would look at me eating a pound of steak being like, you dude, you're going to literally kill yourself and have a heart attack.

Meanwhile, they're eating insomnia cookies and drinking Mountain Dew for lunch. It's just, it's so, it's so fascinating. You would just think that they would want to observe from the person who is clearly healthier than they are, but they just go deeper and deeper into their own rabbit hole.

Speaker 2: It's, it's just, it's indoctrination in at such a level.

It's, it's my, it's mine. Everyone's is mindwashed. You know, it's, it's mine. Everyone's brainwashed to such an extent that they don't see it in front of them. And, uh, [00:03:00] at a certain point, you can't, uh, you can't spend your effort at people like that. You have to move on and talk to the people that are interested in learning.

How

Speaker: do you see this all unfolding in the next few decades outside of, you know, like assuming that Bitcoin continues to get adopted, which I think we're in agreement there. How does the system start to parse itself or, or change? Uh, like, do you see a parallel economy developing or do you see, you know, the, implosion of the legacy system?

I don't know. Like what do you envision happening?

Speaker 2: Tough to say, tough to say, but I mean, a parallel system is starting to form, you know, you can go to a physician now online and he'll give you actual advice about diet and lifestyle that actually does help you. And you can pay him directly. You can pay him in Bitcoin.

It doesn't matter [00:04:00] what his credentials are. It doesn't matter where he's accredited from. And, uh, that's just going to keep growing and growing. And, uh, if that system wants to organize itself one day, maybe it doesn't have to. And what's incredible is with the internet, it's going to be a lot clearer for people who are actually benefiting people.

The internet will show you that this guy is helpful. You know, you have reviews for everyone. Uh, Sean Baker has helped so many people and that's why he's so popular on, on the internet. You know, this is how, uh, this is how the new system is going to develop. And I mean, it's, it's sad to see, but from, from how the way I see it, the current medical system is, is collapsing as we speak.

Like I am a doctor here in Massachusetts. Our hospitals, uh, they're basically in something we call code disaster every day, which [00:05:00] is they're just the capacity of, uh, the capacity of the hospital is not enough for the number of patients. There are patients in the hallway every day. Patients wait for like three days in the emergency room before they go up to a room.

And, uh, I mean, there are many causes for why this is happening, many, many, many reasons. But the main reason, in my opinion, is because we were not addressing the root cause of illness. And so it's just people are just going to keep coming back and back and back. And so I don't think this system is lasting very long.

It doesn't look like it.

Speaker 3: Yeah. It's certainly not sustainable. And what I'm encouraged by was, I think the earlier question I asked you, you know, what credentials do you look for, for a good study? And you said, I don't look for studies. I look for anecdotes. I look for healing journeys. I look for people that said, Hey, I did this and I feel better.

And that's incredibly encouraging to hear a doctor say that because Had I not dug in a podcast and read it in forums and Twitter, I would still be on medication that costs [00:06:00] 150, 000 plus a year. And I do, it's like anecdote is truth. It's so interesting how they've manipulated us into thinking like, Oh, this person's healing story is like N of one.

It does it there. There's no scientific basis for it. When I'm thinking of myself, I followed this diet and I'm no longer on these drugs. Therefore I healed. Wouldn't you want to be able to incorporate some of those things for yourself? Um, but I think hearing doctors talk about the power of anecdote is incredibly encouraging.

Um, Ahmad, do you ever Are you interested at all in maybe opening up your own clinic where you can work with Bitcoiners and people that you can teach about diet and lifestyle and a lot of the things that you've learned over the last decade?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so, uh, I'm currently tied to my hospital because they're just sponsoring my visa, so I'm waiting on that to get resolved.

But I am soon going to launch an online consulting service. Where it's just going to be, uh, one to one just health advice online. And I think that's, [00:07:00] uh, that's going to be the future. And honestly, uh, I, I'm really looking forward to this because it's really, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's been very difficult for me for the last few years.

Just, you know, giving people fiat medicine advice in the hospital. And I, I really want it for my own wellbeing to be able to snap out of that system and actually help people the way I want to help them.

Speaker: It's great seeing this evolution of medicine go online. Like I really do see so much promise in the future of treating people one in a more nuanced and personal way, which. It seems like we've lost, I know, from personal experience and from hearing other people, just the intimacy. And this is probably, you know, within hospitals and outside of hospitals where people are getting care at their primary care.

It's like, relatively quick, not as personalized. It just seems like there's a lot of [00:08:00] technologies that are being built out, whether it's blood work platforms or certain technologies that are tracking sleep and other biomarkers. There's just ways to integrate this in that can help supplement some of what a doctor would be doing.

And then having an informed, uh, doctor who's multiple, who has multiple disciplines under, you know, different schools of medicine and can actually apply science as opposed to just prescribe medicine.

Speaker 2: 100%. 100%. I mean, I wonder on the long term how there's still, there's still And importance for the personal interaction, the personal touch between patient and physician.

That's very important. I mean, hopefully once this becomes more mainstream, there are going to be more clinics like this. And that's eventually my dream is just to have my own clinic where I can just do these things. And it's direct patient to patient and I give the patient the time that he needs. [00:09:00]

Speaker: Yeah, I envision, I envision a future where there's potentially a hybrid model of virtual care that people can get, but then also, you know, coming in and having that, that virtual care can supplement some of the, uh, In person stuff, but I do think that having an in person relationship with a doctor is just very important like them being able to see you and talk to you about your health like there's no replacing that and um, Yeah, I I think that both should exist.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's When I was in medical school, uh, we would have like, like the biggest consultants come and we round with them. And these are the people like, you know, he's famous throughout the city for being the top notch cardiologist. And you see the way he does it, the way he makes people feel [00:10:00] better.

It's just, you know, hi, how you doing? What did you do this weekend? You know, just being personal with people. And that has so much value in actually making people feel better, which is you just treat them as a human being. But in our modern system, like, you know, you're given six minutes with the patients with a patient.

You really can't do that. And that's a huge part of why modern medicine sucks is give people time to talk, try and establish a connection with someone and the quality of care is going to go up significantly.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I would argue that from a patient's perspective. Um, that being personable and having great bedside manner to a patient matters way more than credentials in the medical school that the doctor went to, even for me, like, I don't even need frequent calls, even if I could just be on a light texting basis with my doctor where they could send me messages about my [00:11:00] blood work and things that I should be doing.

And I can ask questions. The issue is your point. I get six minutes with this person. I can tell they're thinking about 50 other things. They're getting ready for their next appointment. Oh, here's your prescription. Don't ask me any questions. And then he's out the door. Like that's where the issue comes from.

I don't even, I don't need a 30 minute appointment. Just be able to have some personalized touch with my doctor where they can answer my questions. Even if it's over text, that's all I feel like I would need.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And the system is just so complex and complicated and people, doctors are so overworked that.

That's the best they can do at this point, you know, and it's, it's sad and it's, it's tough for the patient and for the physician as well.

Speaker: Hmm. Yeah. The, the doctors being overworked, I think is probably something that a lot of people don't truly appreciate. Um, like the amount of different things that a doctor is working on, whether it's caring for the client, administrative, [00:12:00] Tasks that take up a ton of time, anyone in any sort of business role knows that administrative tasks are the last thing you want to do, but they end up taking, uh, they end up taking the most time and it's just balancing all these different things.

So to even give the right level of attention is, is really challenging when their time is spread so thin.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And also like, uh, hospital man, uh, healthcare in general has, has had such an increase in the number of. administrators, non medical personnel over the last 20 years that it's just most of the expenses of the patient appointment is going into paying these people's salaries and they're contributing nothing to the patient interaction.

And, uh, Um, that's part of the reason why the system is just so complex is because there's so many people feeding off it where it's just, it needs to be a direct patient [00:13:00] to patient to physician and interaction.

Speaker 3: I'm not I feel like one of the other great things about you is that you debunk the misconceptions around.

Oh, I don't have, you know, this this diet sounds great but I don't have time to make you know two meals a day or cook two steaks a day. You know, you're obviously extremely busy at the hospital. You work a rigorous schedule. Could make, could you maybe talk about the foods that you eat and how you prep them to make it fit your diet and your routine?

Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, at night I make my three meals for, for the next, for dinner. I make dinner for that night and breakfast and lunch for the next day. So I prepare eggs. and some turkey slices for the morning. For lunch, I have some, like a piece of lamb and some chicken usually. And for dinner, I would have a steak and maybe some more chicken.

And that's just the same rotation. It takes me an hour one day, uh, at night, but it's, it's kind of relaxing. It's, [00:14:00] I'm listening to a podcast or something. I'm doing something good for my health. And it's that simple. Uh, you know, it's cooking up some ground beef in an airfryer or a pan, making some steak, doesn't take that much time.

And, uh, I mean, the, the way I look, I look at my coworkers, the amount of time they have to waste, uh, dealing with sugar crashes and going to get coffees and going to get doughnuts. And yeah, it takes me some time to prepare my three meals, but I, I'm so much more efficient at work because I don't have to deal with.

Any of what things that they're dealing with

Speaker 3: Yeah, like you said you're we're talking an hour max start to finish for three meals And you enjoy it. Cooking is just a, it's an amazing act to just be like very present and focused in the moment. You're listening a podcast so you're educating yourself as well.

And to your point, it's, I mean, if you have, an [00:15:00] air fryer is one of the biggest cheat codes for anyone. Like today, I literally brought an air fryer into the office, seasoned a steak, preheated it, pressed a button, threw the steak in there for six minutes, and then I had like a gourmet meal that filled me up for the next six hours.

So if you do that twice a day, that's literally less than 20 minutes for the best quality food that you can possibly get.

Speaker 2: 100 percent and it's cheaper than, it's cheaper than trying to combine it with, with any plant foods. Historically, people ate plant foods because meat was not very easy to, animals were not very easy to husband, but it's become, we, we we're so lucky that we've gotten to a point where meat is so easily available and affordable that modern cuisine is just, basically you go to a restaurant now, you go to a Mexican restaurant, they give you all the tricks that Mexican culture had for trying to save on making the meat given to so many [00:16:00] people.

So they, they, you know, they're chopping the beef very finely and then combining it with onions and giving you avocados and classic Mexican culture did that because they didn't have that much meat. But at this point we can afford and we are, we've gotten to the point where we can, you have meat available.

You don't need to pay someone to combine plants with your meat just for flavor. So you're, you're losing money by doing that and it's making you unhealthy.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So something I think a lot about is I think 16 percent of the US GDP goes towards healthcare related costs. But I even wonder like, what is the lost GDP on Just potential that we don't have by being malnourished, like the businesses that could be started the capacity to work harder at your job, like you're like you're talking about at a minimum, you have energy to be able [00:17:00] to fire all day long, whereas your coworkers literally feel like they need to pass out under their desk.

That's why I think it's such an important mental model to frame these foods really as holistic assets because we focus so much on the top line, the top line cost versus the benefit that you actually get from those things. Like you look at everything you're doing now in the Bitcoin space, the health space, that obviously wouldn't be happening if you didn't take your health seriously close to a decade ago when you went paleo, right?

Speaker 2: I mean, my increase in efficiency, I would say was, is I am three times more efficient than I was before four times. So imagine multiplying that by the entire population.

Speaker: I even think, you know, GDP looking at it through GDP is a little bit of a trap as well, because. Like our, our energy is really meant to go into so many other directions, not even just like gross domestic product. Like, how about energy to go [00:18:00] invest into your family so that your kids and wife are feeling connected to you as a father, or, you know, if the roles were reversed, like you as a mother or, um, whatever the situation is.

Just having more energy to invest in the relationships, the work, um, other people outside of yourself, it's, Like that's what we're missing. We're missing people who feel compelled to lead because they have drive and they want to build family and businesses and all the other things that create value for other people.

Um, so yeah, on a little bit of a tangent, but you know, I really do think that looking at these things through like Excel spreadsheet numbers is kind of part of the trap. It's your energy is, showing up as the best version of yourself to do everything at an elite level and in Pursuing excellence across the board.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean for me [00:19:00] personally too is I see this every day because You really get to understand the problems with fiat when you work in a hospital because you are dealing with like some of the saddest cases in society. Uh, people who have had family issues and end up on the streets and end up doing drugs.

You know, these people are in the hospital. Once a month and stuff older people that their kids are too busy to take care of and they end up living alone and miserable and, and, uh, and don't have proper nutrition and they end up in the hospital at once every month. And they're all just problems of fiat problems of the destruction of the family unit problem of the destructions of culture and society.

And it's, it's not looking good. It's not looking good. There's a lot of people struggling with this stuff.

Speaker 3: Ahmad, what do you do to try and cultivate a positive mindset in the midst of seeing [00:20:00] a lot of these cases and these patients and even being around co workers that don't embrace this mindset?

Because I feel like you are a fighter and you're continuing to put this message out where I think a lot of other people would get discouraged. It's like, I'm sure there is discouragement, but you also seem hopeful at the same time. I would love to just learn more about the mindset and the things that you do to still feel really good in spite of all this bullshit that you're working in the midst of.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the, the key for me is you have to, if, if you're physically feeling well, you are gonna mentally feel well, uh, you can handle everything. So, I mean, I care a lot about my diet. I care a lot about my exercise. I care a lot about getting in the sun. Uh, I care about a lot about my light environment.

And so once I manage these things, I know that my mind is under my, my control. And this is for me personally, the, the main thing that the benefit of, uh, going low carb, going carnivore. what was for me is just to help with my mood and I always had some issues with [00:21:00] depression and anxiety and once I fixed my diet all these were gone and so that for me is very important if If someone offers me a piece of candy or a dessert or something, I just know that my mental well being is not worth that piece of candy, you know, and, uh, that's sort of my grounding.

Uh, the other thing, the other thing that this is, I would advise anyone who's young is you need to have a purpose, something that you're passionate about, something that will, you believe will get you out of this, uh, system, out of this conundrum, out of this fiat. And for me, I see the hope in, you know, I see people commenting on my post.

I see people learning from them. Uh, I wrote a post about statins, the cholesterol medication the other day. And so many people have told me, Oh, wow, we were going to be put on these medications for life. I'm glad you're telling us about them. So [00:22:00] having that hope, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel is also very important.

And very helpful.

Speaker: Is there, is there anything that you would say to a younger version of yourself? Speaking of, you know, talking to a younger generation, like what should someone who's 20 right now be thinking about in terms of building their future, just from the life experience that you have, you know, as a doctor, as a big coiner, someone who's gotten their health under control.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it, it starts with you getting healthy. Uh, maybe the number one most important advice is that stop treating food as entertainment. Uh, this is such a, like such a shift in, in mindset for most people, but it's just, it's, it's the only way you're going to be able to be helpful in this world. If, if entertainment for you is what you eat, then good luck being, uh, good luck being relevant.

So that's one. Uh, [00:23:00] yeah. Getting healthy is, is very important. Uh, I think it's an important message for young people now is just being able to not be absorbed into swiping and the dopamine addiction that it, it, it brings them. I think that's very important because You need to be able to have an attention span and you need to be able to Sit down and work on whatever you're working on and I think an advice a good advice in that way is to read Read books that helps because if you're able to sustain your attention for long periods, that's helpful And uh buy bitcoin

Speaker 3: I think that's an amazing list right there. It's such important advice too because So we, we both graduated from university and Harry graduated 2016. I graduated 2017. And so when you're 21 years old, even if you're not treating yourself well, everyone is like pretty much [00:24:00] on the same page for the most part.

And even now, six to seven years later, you already see a massive discrepancy between the people that are going to the happy hours, eating the donuts, eating the Fiat foods versus the people that are prioritizing health and wellness. Like you can literally see it. And I'm sure is that as you get older and older, the gap just gets wider and wider.

And that's something that encourages us is all these carnivores. You know, you see someone like Sean Baker, who's 55 years old, he's dead lifting 400 for 18 reps versus the 50 year old that can barely get out of bed. It's like, which version would you pick for yourself? Obviously, you would pick Sean. And I think most people don't understand how much power that they actually have.

And yet, yeah, you might not be as strong as Sean, but you could be an unbelievable shape in your forties, fifties and sixties by eating the actual right foods through a species appropriate diet. So I a hundred percent agree with what you're saying.

Speaker 2: I went to my 10 year college reunion last summer and I was, I was shocked.

It was, [00:25:00] uh, I'm like, wow, you, you look like you've aged 30 years, you know, and most people looked worse than they did 10 years ago, which is, I don't know. Yeah,

Speaker 3: so essentially we need to get you, we need to figure out your visa situation so you can open up this practice, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm doing, I'm going to start, I'm about to launch it very soon, online consulting. So hopefully we're going to start with that until eventually I get it sorted and I'll hopefully have my own clinic.

And, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm close to launching a newsletter too. So some health advice and health information. So I'm excited about that.

Speaker 3: That's incredible. The world, the world needs more of that. I mean, just a world where, you know, I could send someone like my dad who's in relatively good shape. [00:26:00] He's LDL cholesterol.

His doctor's trying to keep him on a stat and then be like, no work with Ahmad. Who's actually going to talk to you about diet and lifestyle. And I know that he'll listen to you because you're an MD. I think about like the compounding effect of that over time. And I think it takes balls to be willing to do that as a doctor, especially when all your colleagues are thinking about things completely opposite to you, but I'm sure it's also encouraging connecting with other people on the internet, like the Bakers, like the Dr.

Chaffee's of the world, that they kind of give you that tribe that you might not have while you're isolated in Boston, right?

Speaker 2: A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And, uh, I mean, I'm not a, I'm not a firm believer that. Like you could benefit more from someone who's read enough on the internet than from someone with a medical degree, but some people really appreciate having that degree.

So I do have it. For the ones that are interested in that.

Speaker: Ahmad, one of the things that I really love and appreciate, appreciate about you and your [00:27:00] brother is just the, the directness into which you speak about a lot of these problems that we see in the world, but also just the, the framework that you guys also use in order to provide solutions.

So it gives me a lot of hope just knowing that. You are out there, you're plugging away at your job, uh, up in Boston, treating people, doing the right thing, but also seeing this vision for yourself, being able to actually provide care directly within your own practice. Um, in the future, it's, it's really exciting and encouraging.

I know Brett and myself are both just looking forward to seeing what you do here. And, um, you know, in a short matter of time, I'm sure you'll have that practice open and Bitcoin more. Be even more further adopted, um, and the future will be looking brighter.

Speaker 2: Thank you. And I appreciate you guys work with, with this podcast too.

Speaker 3: Yeah, we just, we're, we're just encouraged by conversations like this, where I guarantee you, [00:28:00] at least a few people will draw some type of either inspiration, applicable information, start to make those changes and feel amazing. And, um, we just need to encourage more conversation like this.

Speaker 2: Definitely.

Speaker 3: So thank you so much, my man.

Hopefully we will get to link up in person at some point too. That would be amazing.

Speaker 2: Sounds good. If you guys are ever in Boston, let me know.

Speaker 3: Sounds good.