The Meat Mafia Podcast

Part 2
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Speaker 2: [00:00:00] I think one of the things, there's two things that I'm taking from you guys. I think, number one, I think there's this misconception around CPG where, So many different industries and different brands are oversaturated and oh, I have this idea But it's probably already been been done before I think you guys are a great example of like there always is another blue ocean opportunity like a mineral a supplement some concept That's very personalized to you where maybe it is untapped so you can be kind of the trailblazer in that space And then secondly, I think what I'm learning and something that Harry and I have seen is that founders, the ability to tell stories, especially from a founder's perspective is so important and you guys just have such authenticity behind the journey that you've been on the last 10 years, the way this supplement has helped like positively impact your health.

I think that those are two things that you guys have done super, super well that I think a lot of other founders can learn from too. Like just that, that authenticity and being able to tell that story. Like we want to believe in the power of stories. And I think we've really like fallen away from that in modern society.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's well [00:01:00] said. It's almost like owning your own story is really powerful. Um, I've struggled with that a lot in the past, but since doing this project, um, that's becoming more authentic because it's my story.

Speaker 2: I'm

Speaker 5: not like when I work from someone else, I'm, there was always something missing. Cause I'm telling someone else's story.

And I think that's what I love about podcasting and meeting guys like yourselves is like, you can sit down and tell your story and it's authentic to you. And that's what podcasting does as well. It's like gives everyone a platform to tell their own story. And there's such a connection to that, to your point, like.

Your audience is going to connect to that because it's actually authentically you

Speaker 4: and

Speaker 5: that's what I love But yeah story is a really powerful and impactful thing.

Speaker 4: Yeah,

Speaker 5: and For me, it's like inspiring myself and inspiring others is really important Because it doesn't matter what we do if we [00:02:00] can just inspire one more person Like it's it's such a beautiful thing to do.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. Do you guys remember like the feeling of when you've sold your first order on Shopify? Because I remember for us when we got that first noble ding on Shopify Like it was like the first, you know dollar that we had made from the internet and it was just like the best feeling It was almost the way that you said the light bulb went on when you were taking shilajit It was like the light bulb went on of like just the amazing leverage of the internet So i'm wondering if you were maybe it was you know Not that moment, but like another one that really pops up that's special for you guys in this, you know, 10 year journey that you've been on.

Is there anything that comes to mind there?

Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely. We still have those dings still on. You guys have heard, we would have heard it and when we started a thing really early on in the piece, it was like, we'd just go, yeah, like every time and, and when, and I don't know if you guys have got it with your subscription model, when it ticks over at 12 o'clock, it's different in Australia.

It's like five o'clock in the afternoon. And when we're together, it's just like, bing, bing, bing, [00:03:00] bing. So it's like, we just laugh about it. But the journey to get to that point is so brutal. Um, but yeah, that's the one thing that I love is when that ding goes off. It's just, ah, it's such a satisfying feeling that, you know, that all the hard yards you're doing is paying off.

But yeah, that's, that's quite, it's quite a funny thing when you actually start hearing and it's like, Oh, we're actually doing something good. Um, and even I, I spend a fair bit of time in our customer service and going in and cause sometimes in this game, and I don't know if you guys have experienced it, like with all the good things, there's obviously the bad things that come through as well.

And just knowing that there's, there's a balance and a harmony with that as well. And that's what I always do is like not getting too carried away with all the really amazing things because there's some deep learnings in the things that aren't going well. So putting attention on that's really important for us as well.

And I think that's important for founders to know is like, and Dave does a great job with this is let's just not take any [00:04:00] of that stuff personally. It's just like room for improvement and to put attention on that and to get better. And I think that's a really important thing as well as like, yeah, really celebrate the wins, but also celebrate all of the feedback is really important as well.

Speaker 4: Hmm.

Speaker: Yeah, I feel like that's, that's like a mental mastery course in itself, like being able to appreciate some of those low moments for what they are, like not necessarily categorizing them as good and bad. Like, I feel like even just like with emotions or just things that happen to us in general, it's always good or bad.

And, um, I've heard a story of, like, um, you know, this guy, I think it's a story of, like, this guy going up a mountain and, like, his horse dies and somebody asks him, like, is that, You know, or is it a good thing or a bad thing? He's like, well, we'll see and then like some good thing happens to him And he's like, oh it actually turns out to be good and the story just keeps going Yeah, so it's all perspective, which I feel like you guys [00:05:00] like kind of master I'm wondering what has it been like bringing people into the fold and actually having people Start to work for you guys in the business.

Like have you seen your guys unique relationship being able to be expanded out?

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good question. I think what I was talking about, um, with Brett earlier is like finding and empowering people to find out what they're good at and really just like going all in on that and just saying, you know, find out what you're good at.

And, and just do that and just go all in on that and whatever I can do to support you. And we hate managing people cause that's not what the business is about, the project's not about that. So it's almost like for us as empowering people to find what they're amazing at and just tell them to go all in on that.

And we sort of from a leadership point of view, we flip the script and so what more else can I help you with? What else do you need from me? And that's not only the team that [00:06:00] work with us, but also our contractors. And what else do you need from me? And that's really an open door for people to come in and out and just like to support them on their own journey.

Because as I said at the start of the podcast, it's, it's a personal development journey. It doesn't matter who it is. Um, so that's, that's how we operate internally. It's really, it's really powerful. Um, we've got one guy that works with us that looks after, he's our director of all of our manufacturing and logistics and he's been a dear brother of ours for 25 years and just to see his growth over the last 12 months has been incredible and that sort of lights me up as well because he's now, he was coming from a job that he was miserable about and he had a lot of life stuff going on and now he's a different person.

And that's from all of us putting maximum amount of attention on what he is good at and his attention to detail and just going all in on that and it's just, he's [00:07:00] absolutely killing it and that, that's the other thing that lights me up massively with what we do now. It's um, it's super empowering. .

Speaker 4: Mm,

Speaker 2: yeah.

He's killing it. He loves it. And then he's able to take all that off of your plate so you can both focus on the things that you're both uniquely talented at that you love to do as well. That's one of the things that we've learned as well. Um, 'cause I feel like in the beginning, at least for the first year, you kind of do have to eat shit a little bit and do and do everything.

And then when you reach a certain point of scale, you can bring in amazing people and expand the team. And they're way better at these specific pockets of the business that you are. And then it kind of like allows you to focus on the things that you love to do that light you up.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Well said. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2: What do you both think are your own like unique superpowers or things that you love to do within, within mana? You can answer that

Speaker 3: for me, it's the vision and just that attention to detail on constant improvement. Like if there's an area we can improve on, [00:08:00] uh, it doesn't matter what it is. I guess it's that pursuit of excellence and like we're reinvesting any extra revenue back into R& D and back into making the product even better.

Um, that's a big part of why I'm doing it. I just want to have that absolute best version of the Ocean Plasma, of the Shiller Jet, of the gold. all of those practices, all of those processes. So our ocean plasma goes through a three year solid evaporation process. Our flavor profile to help with the shilajit taste is handmade by an avidic professor of 50 years over like a 10 week period.

Um, the gold that we have in our new product is 24 carat gold that goes through a calcineration process over three months. And then gets broken down into a nanometer sized particles [00:09:00] in a lab. So each of these areas is the absolute best version of those micronutrients from the, uh, ocean, the plant world, and the metallic world.

The, the, the metallic side of it, um, becomes bioavailable in that nanometer size. But just the attention to detail that's involved, In all of those processes is super intense. Um, but that's what I believe my skill is, is like finding the absolute best of those. Maintaining that level of passion and excitement.

And then the vision of why that's so important. And like doing that study, uh, and education on, you know, what's the best thing for our biology outside of, you know, you know, uh, faith and those energetic relationships that we can have. But the, what's the best physical thing we can give to our body? And if there's something new or better, [00:10:00] we will look at, we will look into it.

Um, but that's what I believe Mana is and will become known as a brand is just this incredible quality that doesn't compromise on, um, any of those or any of the quality. Incredible brand that just doesn't compromise on quality.

Speaker 5: Um, regardless. And, and Dave's vision. So Dave will hold the vision and it's pretty simple from a point of view like I always say that I look after the, the how and the who.

So yeah, so we'd like to keep things very simpler, simple. So for me, I just dive into who are we going to do it with and how are we going to do it? Um, and that's been going down like all these different rabbit holes. So that's the stuff that I'm a genius at, right, is to find out how we're actually going to do it and geek out on that.

And I love doing all that stuff. So it's like our partnerships, our relationships, you know, our team, all of that sales component. [00:11:00] I love doing all of that. And we can both interchange in those roles as well too, which is really, really important. And you actually learn off each other. So from a vision point of view and a detailed point of view, I'm learning off Dave.

And from the other point of view, he's learning off me as well. And to remain open for both and anyone else in our team that's bringing their skill sets in as well as to learn off them. And that makes the whole unit grow together. And that's what's really important. Dave does a fantastic job of holding that vision.

And there's a lot of things that are non negotiable. And everyone knows that. So it's really, really simple for us to operate in our own silos and then come to, come together in a team. So, but yeah, really focusing on, it's a great question. Focusing what you're good at is really, really important because things get done.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And when you're developing something that people are actually going to put into their body, into this sacred temple, [00:12:00] for us, that's such an honor, like there's such a level of trust and faith that people are putting in us. So it's so important for us to, to honor that process and say like, this is the best thing we know of to give you.

And we're talking about before about that ding on the phone. For me, I love that. And you know, some days it's like three or 400 dings, but it's like, I just love going on there and actually looking who it is, where they come from and being like, thank you. You know, like thanks for the trust. And just knowing that when they get that product, That's going to be such a blessing for them in their life.

Speaker: Yeah. Now, did those roles that you guys kind of identified, did those just eventually over time organically start to surface as like these are our clear strengths or Was that kind of from the beginning established? The reason I ask the question is I think that you know when you're starting out and like bootstrapping [00:13:00] something It's like Brett was saying you try to do everything You And then you realize, like, you're like, I should not be doing that, or I should just be doing all of this.

But it's easy to want to have your hand in like 15 different buckets, but eventually you're not even allowing any of your gifts to come through if you're focused on too many things.

Speaker 5: Yeah, that's well said. Yeah, no, I think it's, uh, I think we've experienced and because we've known each other for a very long time, I think that's been our, our biggest advantage too.

So, and naturally as a human, you gravitate towards what you're good at, but also exposing yourself to what you're not good at and the lessons you can learn from that and upskill. And I think that's been something that we've done very, very well is like learning aspects of the business that, you know, we probably don't enjoy, but we'll have to do.

Um, and we have to, as you say, eat shit.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 5: Um, and I think that's making you well rounded to understand every aspect of the [00:14:00] business. And Dave and I could answer any question with any aspect of the business, and that's really important for us as well when we've got other people coming in. But yeah, I think we knew each other enough to know what certain aspects of the project was.

Yeah. would be our strengths. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3: And one of the beautiful things with being a founder is you do have to, or for a startup anyway, you have to build it from the ground up. You have to do all of those things yourself. So you always know them. Yes. I mean the, the business X has expanded now to the point where there's, there's a lot of the things that Brad does that I couldn't jump in and do because he's had to go on a path of learning those, um, in particular with a lot of the sales and marketing stuff.

But yeah, still most of it, especially on the supply side.

Speaker 4: Yeah,

Speaker 3: we can jump in at any time. and still do daily to help our [00:15:00] supply team with any aspect of any of it really.

Speaker 5: Yeah, moving all the way from like regulatory, I can go all into our regulatory, making sure that our testing's right, our importing and exporting, because with our supply, We're getting products from all over the world.

So for us, logistics, making sure and understanding the nuance in a lot of those areas is profound. It's like you were saying, we're not, we're actually manufacturing the product as well. We're not getting a third party into, you know, Handling the whole regulatory, the manufacturing, the logistics, now we're, we're handling all of those touch points.

So like as Dave said, we can jump in at any time depending on where the team is to answer those questions from a regulatory point of view, from an import export point of view as well too. So yeah, so, it's a unique business like that. Like I love the sales and marketing part but also I know the importance of our supply side because [00:16:00] to get Marna into those sachets Is such a journey like it's been a brutal journey To get like Dave saying is the ease of use for like our customers Is something that we spent millions of dollars on and millions of hours of attention on and it's been brutal along the way But to put attention just on that supply and not worry about anything else in the business except getting that right is really really important

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that brutal journey really is, um, it's a reflection of just the commitment that you both have to the quality of the product and not compromising on anything.

And the cool thing about the way things are trending in CPG is that I think customers are craving founders that really care about that quality and that lack of compromising. And they're willing to almost pay whatever price point you guys charge. For that commitment to quality too, which I think is so cool that there is this just like heart and soul that I think we're craving from [00:17:00] customers and companies.

It's almost like the sacred transaction. And so I think that's an amazing thing that gives us a lot of a lot of faith and a lot of encouragement. Um, I'm really interested by the friendship that you guys have to the fact that you guys have known each other for 30 years and our business partners again, another similarity that I think the four of us have.

And it makes me think to, um, To some friend, there's two friends that Harry and I have that are based in Austin, Dave and Chris, and they're the founders of this company called Jasper AI. And so they're the fastest SaaS company to reach a billion dollar valuation ever. And they're like the nicest, most humble, most God fearing men that you'll ever meet.

And so they've kind of, they're friends, but they're, they're almost, they're mentoring us in a lot of ways, too. And one of the first things they said that when they met both of us together is that they always put, they said that their business was really an extension of their friendship. And some people tell you to keep those things separately, but they focused on friendship first, business second, and their theory was that if our friendship and our relationship is really [00:18:00] good, Then we'll be making the right business decisions from the, from the right place and the right heart posture.

And I'm curious if that's something that you guys agree with as well, and how you handle being really close friends and brothers, like you described, and then also business partners and co founders too.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I feel like because we did take that time out again and found that deep space inside of ourselves, that's the most important thing for us.

So our friendship comes first. And there's a level of trust amongst that knowing that then we can extend into, into the project, I guess. Um, yeah, so I feel like, um, just having that like trust and knowing, and Brad mentioned something really powerful before, and he said putting the other person first.

Speaker 4: I

Speaker 3: think Brad does a better job at that than I do.

Sometimes, there's like that obsession [00:19:00] that we both have on The manifestation of things as well. And when I say obsession, I guess a lot of that is just because we understand that through that obsession, it's the actual, the manifestation will come out. We're giving them that manifestation, the best opportunity to be the best form of that manifestation that it can be.

Um, and I'll probably, I'll get into that obsessive state and visual state quite intensely. Um, but yeah, because we have that deep level of friendship and trust. that will always be there. So even if we're having a bad day or a challenging week or whatever that might be, we just almost have like, um, a trust and a knowing that we can come back to.

And the project is secondary to that, even though there's so much obsession within getting that component right as well. So I don't know what would you. Yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it's well said. I think [00:20:00] when you know yourself. And have that self responsibility as well. It allows you to then express in any other relationship authentically.

And as Dave's talking there, like, I understand when we're on these trips and when we're out talking and doing podcasts and communicating and like, I know what state Dave needs to get in for some of those. and what my role is, and understanding what my role is, is really, really important. Uh, and I agree, like putting our, our relationship and our friendship first is, is like the utmost importance.

Um, and that's the way we talk about MANA as a project, because we get the opportunity, we're blessed to get the opportunity to be like stewards for the products, stewards for the elements. So, Um, holding that vision is really important as well, um, that our, our relationship is not [00:21:00] like, like mana, like we're not mana, we've got our relationship, we've got the project and they're two different things, they're not the same thing.

So, that's really important for us and, and just, yeah, just being able to understand each other. And there's, there's times where Dave knows that I need a break from the business and just take some time out. So it's actually understanding each other and it's, I feel like there's a lot of information so I'll never work with your friends and all that, but I feel like that's our superpower as well.

Speaker 4: Mm.

Speaker 5: Like I really do and I can see that in the both of you two is like, it's a deep, deep understanding and you don't want to be like each other. And that's one thing that Dave and I do really well. Like I don't want to be like Dave and Dave doesn't want to be like me. And it's not because we don't like each other.

It's just the fact, it's just the fact that, you know, like just be authentically you and the rest will look after itself. And I think what your mentors said is, is super powerful. [00:22:00] And I think that's. Um, that's the opportunity now is I'd like to encourage more friends to do things together. And it's not saying that you're going to have, um, you know, you're, you're not going to agree on everything, but that fundamentally you've got a core principle there that you've got a deep belief and faith in each other.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I'll give you guys an example of like the, the obsession and kind of intensity of the, the vision that sometimes comes through cause it's only, it only happened last week. So the bulk manufacturing of our new Manor Gold product that has 24 karat gold in the product. There was probably about a hundred different components that had to come together for last Thursday for us to do the manufacturing.

And I was managing a lot of those components and it was down to the wire and we'd literally flown over here, we'd spent 40 hours traveling from Australia to get to [00:23:00] Minneapolis for that day. And the last component to come in, there was three components that needed to come in on the morning of the manufacturing.

And one of them was half a million dollars worth of gold in a nanoparticle form. And it was touch and go whether it was going to make it. And, you know, we were locked in for manufacturing and it all got there. It all arrived perfectly. Um, and we had to put it together, but that was probably a good example where, um, you know, Brad was holding space for me in a way, because I just knew the different components of what needed to happen on that day for that to be manufactured in the way that I've been in visiting that for 10 years, that was literally the culmination of like 10 years of being exposed to these different versions of alchemical gold and pure 24 karat gold.

Um, and through that level of attention and dealing with all of those different relationships, even as we were traveling, it [00:24:00] worked out perfectly. However, if I dropped the ball for a moment, we might've missed that opportunity or it mightn't have happened as it did happen. So yeah, there's those moments still exist and that's one that happened just, you

Speaker 5: know,

Speaker 3: This time last week.

Speaker 5: Yeah, you just, sometimes you just gotta get the job done. Yeah, I think that's really important. And we constantly laugh about it cause it's like oh, we're always amazed that it always works out exactly how it has to. It's crazy. It's like every single time you just laugh. You just go, Oh yeah, of course it's gonna work out this way.

Yeah. How will it not? So yeah, it's crazy. you

Speaker: What are, Brad, what's going through your head as, you know, it sounds like, Dave, maybe you were having the, you had the vision in your head, you have all the little things that need to get done to get there so the manufacturing day actually happens the way it's supposed to, but your role, I, I think is [00:25:00] equally as important, where it's like, I need to make sure he's, You know, still feeling supported and, you know, can still see that vision so that this all can come together and everything happens the right way.

So,

Speaker 5: yeah, it's almost automatic for me. It's like I can viscerally feel it from an intensity point of view. So I just know what I automatically just go into, you know, what's our next step. I like it. So if we're flying or we've got to organize travel or we've got to, you know, because the way that we travel, we don't.

We don't book our, uh, accommodation until probably we're jumping on the flights and all that. So I just make sure we're just heading in the direction that we need to go in and putting one step in front of the other and just taking, like, just taking the responsibility on any of the peripheral stuff is being, putting myself in front of it and making sure I'm the buffer between that and what we've actually, the intensity of what we've got to do.

For example, with the gold manufacturing is like, I'll just handle everything on the peripheral crew. [00:26:00] And making sure that we're getting to point B, and then we'll just make sure that there's enough space for the magic to happen. And that's the important, because I understand deeply that if we put fear to it, it won't sort of come out the way it needs to.

It's like, give it space, Dave's going to get super intense, I've just got to point the ship in the direction that we've got to go in, anything externally is coming in, I'll just handle it. And I don't, we don't articulate it, I just can viscerally feel and understand over the last 10 years what, how important that is for the brand.

Um, so yeah, I just, it just goes into autopilot, yeah.

Speaker: A lot of this communication is happening without actually having to speak. It's just, you guys know each other that well. Tidally.

Speaker 5: Tidally, yeah. 100%. Can

Speaker: relate.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like you know when Dave is in his element, in his, in his arena, versus when you're in your arena too. So it's like something like [00:27:00] manufacturing.

You know, he's got that intensity. He's got that vision. He knows what he needs to do And then you figure out how you can play your part Whereas I would imagine if it's something like retail, you know trying to get into like an erwan or sales related or something like That that's your element and then dave you figure out the role that you can play too.

Speaker 5: Yeah, totally Yeah, totally and and there's some big parts in that manufacturing as well you know in real time that I can see that dave's looking intensely into something And he's he's seeing a problem You And I go, I know exactly what the problem and the solution is to that. And then I'll just go off on my own and go, nah, this is, this is what we need to do.

And it's like, that's where I can sort of jump in as well, because like we were saying before, I've got the experience in the manufacturing now just as much. And I know that there's some workarounds that we can, can do as well and to offer instead of just holding space and being passive, it's being proactive and knowing the timing and knowing intuitively when to come [00:28:00] in.

And I think that's sort of one of my superpowers and intuitively just reading the situation and acting when I've got to act. But also checking in, is it, is it my fear or is it my stuff coming up is really important too, because you don't want to project your stuff when someone's in an intense moment like that.

Yeah. Cause you can relate, right? Like when you think, Oh, I'm just going to go out and help. It's like, I'll just check myself and go, Oh, is this my stuff is like, can this actually help? And just sort of zoom out and have that real helicopter view of what's going on is really, really important. I always think it's amazing

Speaker 2: like when you look at Mona or just like any beautiful product, like you just see it in its final form.

Like this amazing, like beautiful, simple little package. And there's like literally thousands and thousands of like different iterations and permutations and decisions and things that almost didn't go right that worked out to like get that product in its final form. Right? Like the consumer doesn't have that [00:29:00] perspective that you guys have.

Which I don't know. I don't know. I'm kind of thinking out loud. I just think that's such a cool thing.

Speaker 5: Yeah, and and some it's just like a slight of hand or a word of like, oh, I love your packaging or you know I just feel so good in the hand Because that's exactly what from a design point of view that you know Especially Dave's worked with a lot of our design team on getting that box to fit perfectly in the palm and the tactility of that and the utility of that is really, really important.

So when people acknowledge that, and to your point, it's like, Oh yeah, that they actually, yeah, we did it. Like, and there's been many times along the way where like high five, yeah, we've done it.

Speaker 4: And

Speaker 5: I think that's really important too, is to like, really feel and viscerally feel those wins because You're not, I'm not attached to any outcome like Dave was saying earlier to, to the project, but it's actually look each other in the eye and just go, [00:30:00] yeah, we actually won on that and be really thankful and grateful and just be in that moment and be really present with it.

It's really important because who knows what's going to happen, you know, I've got no idea, but just like to tally those up and I laugh about it with Dave often. The next log. I'll go to my grave knowing that we've had a red hot crack at everything.

Speaker: I love that.

Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's like, in every aspect of our life, and especially with this project, it's like, some of the things that have happened, and some of the people we've met, and some of the places that we've ended up, it's like, oh, this would have never happened if we didn't create this incredible offering.

So yeah, we're super grateful.

Speaker: You, you made me think about this, because I used some of your guys product before we got in here, and I was just thinking about how simple it was to get it into the bottle, and how many hours went into that little squirt of the product. I'm like, that's like, thousands and thousands of hours just, and the consumer's just [00:31:00] sitting there like, so convenient.

Um, like to me, I was, as like, your guys friends, I'm thinking like, man, that's almost like, Kind of a disservice for how much work that goes into it But it's a testament to the amount of work that you guys have done getting every little detail right like that So it's it's cool to just be able to experience these products through your guys vision.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Thanks appreciated It's because we've actually been selling the products for a decade.

Speaker: Yeah,

Speaker 3: so we've been selling shilajit resin in a little purple jar And I guess along that way we've also figured out like it's not ideal if you leave the lid off it It goes hard like concrete and you can't get it out.

If you get some on the screw cap, you can't get the lid off. Uh, and it doesn't taste the best just in its normal resin form. So, yeah, we went on a massive journey. We're actually in R& D for five years with those sachets. And, yeah. And I, and, I mean, you won't see those sachets used for other supplements because, you know, The work that you have to go through to [00:32:00] kind of get it to that point, um, is just a lot to put it simply, but it's like, you know, a good athlete or a good sports person.

They just make something look so simple. Yes. And packaging's kind of, um, a bit of a stretch to say it's like a sports person, but it's true. Those, the reason we stuck with those sachets, even though there's been times where we, it would have been so much easier to put it in any other form of packaging.

Yeah. Um, was simply because we knew that it would make, like, Shilajit resin is not easy to, to, uh, to administer. So we just knew it would make our customers lives so much easier and save them time. If they could just snap something and in five seconds it's in their drink and they can drink it. Yes. Which is a huge thing for Shilajit.

It's actually one of the reasons why it hasn't been that popular. Because it's really popular in the East. It's been medicine there for thousands of years. Yes. But it's just so cumbersome to work with and it tastes pretty average. So they were the two big things that we spent so much time researching and working on [00:33:00] was improving the flavor and putting it in a single dose sachet that people, again, it was just simple and easy to use so that they could, so that they would use it basically.

Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I feel like there's so much alpha to be gained in these like small little improvements that no one else is willing to do. And I'm not, and I'm not trying to diminish the sachet cause it's not a small little improvement. It's, it's massive. But just this mindset of like, I could just kind of compromise on this and coast and get the job done.

But like, you know, in your heart and soul, if there's a deeper level to tap into, I even think about it sometimes, like when I answer customer service tickets with Noble, where sometimes I'll write out a response where someone's asking like a really detailed question about the ingredients. Okay. And I'll give like the canned response that's quick.

It takes me a minute to write it. And I've actually been stopping myself recently and being like, no, like every opportunity that someone is conversing with us and asking a question, it's an opportunity to win a lifetime customer potentially. And then I'll go back and I'll, you know, spend 10 minutes on a great response.

And a [00:34:00] lot of times they'll end up Of being really appreciative and they'll end up purchasing the product on subscription and being some of our most loyal customers. But that reminded me of what you were saying, like knowing that there's this vision of like a deeper level that you can tap into, but not compromising on that at all.

Even if it's more difficult. Like actually like turning that thing into reality.

Speaker 3: And I love what you said about customer service. Mm-Hmm. . Customer service questions are probably my favorite and it's super interesting to me because I've literally thought about this product and these ingredients for tens of thousands of hours.

However, it's still changes like my responses and answers still change depending on the question and new things will come up. So it's actually like a great opportunity for education as well as like Improvement on the brand and the product. So yes, those responses that come from customers are Super valuable for a brand and super valuable for founders to still have access to Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I set up our customer service Through gorgeous and the [00:35:00] tickets and now it's been incredible experience Yeah, and we often dive and we still dive in like, all the time on those customer service questions. And it's, it's really important. We still dive into our social media account as well and we're pretty much on it every day in the sense of like looking at some of the questions that are coming through and answering questions.

And there's Yeah, some of those questions that come through are great. And then like Dave said, like we were in our spot, like our Shopify account, looking at the orders coming through every day and commenting, Oh, look, they've come from here. They've come from there. It's just, it's crazy. It blows my mind every day.

Like when all this is happening, it's, it's, it's such a mind boggle for me, but the customer servicing is really important when you're talking about that. I was just going, Oh yeah, we do that often as like answering back to, to customers. And it's great sometimes people reaching out where you've been on a podcast or you've done something and they reach out and they tell their part of [00:36:00] the story.

And it's really inspiring for me to say that as well to like that feedback is really, really important too, because it's the only way you're going to learn.

Speaker 3: The other thing we do with customer service is, we actually, the customer service email that we have, everyone sees it. And when Brad or I or someone else replies to it, we reply all.

So everyone sees the reply. So it's almost like an educational component for new people coming in as well. I love that. They'll see how we answer the question and why we answer the question that way. Um, so yeah, customer service is great.

Speaker 2: It really is just a great way to keep your finger on the pulse, right?

Because you pick up on these themes. You know, for us, there was like the first formulation of the product. There was a particular ingredient that customers had a lot of questions about and they were continuing to send in tickets. And we're like, alright, well, if we're continuing to see this theme and they don't know what it is, we should figure out a way to really educate it and make sure that they know what it is on the website too.

[00:37:00] And so, it just forces you to like get that pattern recognition and then make those changes. Yeah, well said. Um, so one of the, so obviously, you know, we were, we were fortunate where we were able to raise some capital last summer, which really helped us scale things from a paid ad perspective, a marketing perspective, etc.

But like, I would say for the first hundred K of revenue, it was kind of guerrilla style of just like DMing people, getting affiliates, going on podcasts, etc. Um, if you were talking to a founder that is completely bootstrapped and they don't have the luxury of being able to raise capital. Do you guys have any recommendations or of things that you could do from like a sales and marketing perspective to really get the brand Out there to be generate sales like without paid advertisements

Speaker 5: Without paid advertisements.

Yeah, definitely that influencer marketing is really important um and making sure for us it's been really simple in a way because It's always been like mission and brand and relationship aligned with our influences [00:38:00] And we've been I'm super lucky with the, with the influencers that we've dealt with and your Ben Greenfields and your Eric Hyman's and, and I had a list of a hundred, uh, I think it's called the dream hundred.

I think it was by the guy that did the, the click funnels. What's his name? I can't remember his name. You know, they go on talking about young guy and I, and I just went, yeah, yeah, yeah. Russell, Russell Branson, um, shout out Russell. Um, yeah, I just made a list of all the people that I'd been following for like five to five to 10 years.

Right. That I was inspired by that. I thought the product would align to, and I just reached out, I was just reaching out to all these people. Um. Um, and we found a lady, Erin Smith, she'll be listening. Um, yeah, she's an, do you know Erin? Yeah. Yeah. She's amazing. Yeah. She's an absolute, she crushes it. She'll know, she'll know what I mean by that too.[00:39:00]

Um, so we got introduced to her by one of our team members and basically I was sitting in a hotel with a packet of chips and 0 in the bank and a million dollars worth of stock. So we just went. Oh my gosh, we've got to do something. And then we got introduced, I got introduced to Erin, got her a heap of samples, um, like a seeding list.

Um, she introduces to Josh Trent from Wellness Force, um, Wellness Wisdom, um, and then on to our paid team in Austin. So yeah, that's basically create a seeding list of influences that you feel will align with your brand. And then just go on that journey. And I feel like having, you know, a hundred to 200 units of product to send out to these influencers that you want to work with and see how you're going to be brand aligned and then just, just constantly just go through that and then you'll get in front of the right people.[00:40:00]

If you've got like all that attention on the most incredible product you can build. I always, always say like, focus on building the best product you can. with the intention and then get it to the people that need to get it to. And then you'll have that perfect relationship and then you can just do whatever you want after that.

And you can obviously go down the paid route after that, but I would think make of a list of a hundred people, cede your product to those a hundred people, and then you'll get a certain percentage that will love what you're doing and love your message. And then, um, yeah, just go for it.

Speaker: It's such great advice.

Like these influencers can really champion your brand in a way that is so far outside of the way that you guys even communicate about your product. Like they find their own unique perspective on it, love the results they're getting with it, and then they're able to bring a whole new audience and voice to what you guys have built.

So I, I love that. Um, I'm curious, how far do you guys [00:41:00] look into the future? Like with the product and everything? Like, where's your guys gaze?

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question. Uh, So we've just completed like the vision for a product suite. So we've actually got, we've just had one product in the market for the last 12 months, mana.

And now we've just put another three products into the market. So two are in the market. One comes in on the 21st of June, and that's our complete suite of four products. So from a supply side, that feels incredible. Uh, and then we've got a, um, a fairly tight sales strategy for 2024. And then, uh, you know, I've said to Brad and the rest of the team, like the sales strategy for 2025 can just totally open up.

So I guess we do things like six months or 12 months at a time. Um, it's a fairly loose vision as far as when I say a loose vision, [00:42:00] like I'll think about it every day. However, I don't want it to be a bottleneck or, um, If someone comes in with a good idea, Brad or anybody from our, from the rest of the team comes in and says, should we look at this?

Should we do this? Should we do that? Um, then we'll look at it. And if it feels right, we'll entertain it. The main reason that I've got that vision that I can see is, is literally because of the limitation of our supply. So for us to grow to the point that we'll get to by November, that's, that's as much as we can handle from a supply perspective.

Um, with us using our revenue to put back into more supply because our product costs us about 30 percent of our revenue, which is super high. Um, so we have to manage all of that. We don't get any additional investment that's just managing from, from a revenue perspective.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting thing because I get really excited with the sales and marketing side, right?

Because that [00:43:00] influencer side, you know, that marketing side's It's we say it's like really alluring and fun. And then we've got our supplier side so really and I've always got because Dave and I are co founders and partners like we've got one CEO and You've got to be really careful careful that you're not both making decisions like a CEO.

So you've got one CEO, you know, one leadership port. It's really important. I find with a lot of co founders that I see that there's a confusion of like the vision. Sometimes be really clear on what your vision and who holds that vision and who makes the final decision. because that can then drive the ship in momentum in the way it needs to go.

It's really, really important. But yeah, for me, from a vision point of view on like looking far out there, I feel like we've got an incredible suite of products now with the ocean being the Like a hyper electrolyte product, which is incredible. Um, we've got a Shilajit product out on its own, because [00:44:00] that's what the, you know, the audience wanted.

And then we've got Marnagol, which is like the pinnacle of what we've got. So, from a sweet I couldn't be happier. It's incredible. So yeah, it's just making sure that we've got our stock right so that we've got our subscribers looked after and then we can then grow in our business in 2025 and, and go where we feel is, is the right place to go.

Um, cause we don't want to grow it to a point where it's just out of control. I think just being, letting it grow organically is really, really important. Um, cause it's still a project and we still want to be able to be inspired the moment it starts owning you in a way that inspiration for me, I can talk for me, that inspiration starts to wane.

It's just like, yeah, I still want to have that, that wonder and awe as my partner says, you know, have that wonder and awe about, you know, that childlike. [00:45:00] attitude to, to waking up every day is really important for me.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's, it is. We don't want to grow it too much faster than it's already growing, to be honest, because of exactly what Brad said.

Like, you know, we're here, we're with you guys before this, we're with other people actually sitting, developing relationship, right? Like, that's what we love to do. Before we came to Austin, we're in Minneapolis manufacturing. We're visiting the manufacturer of our, of our boxes, our designers, we were actually manufacturing the product, we were co packing the product, the boxes that we gave you today of the new gold product, we were putting the sachets in those.

So we, we still love doing all of that. If we grow too fast, um, my sense is that we will lose touch with a lot of those components and it'll become more like work. I've become more like a job. And that's where I think Brad and I are quite [00:46:00] keen to, um, I don't know if protect it's the right word, but just within our own way, enjoy, keep enjoying the process, um, to answer your original question more specifically, it's like, I don't actually have a vision beyond 2024 because I want to see where we are at the end of this year and.

recreate the vision for next year without having any limitations. So being able to kind of just concentrate on the vision for this year. So acutely that it manifests perfectly. Um, and then next year recreate that vision from a fresh space, uh, because that's part of that fun as well. So yeah, I dunno. Um, yeah, yeah.

Keeping it, keeping it fun. Keeping all of that feedback coming in from Brad and the rest of the team. Uh, cause we've got an incredible team now and, and they're all beautiful people, they're coming from that, that deep space and [00:47:00] they're seeing a lot of things, uh, that we won't be able to see as well. Um, so listening to their ears and eyes from the field, uh, is really powerful.

Speaker 2: It's very smart and contrarian advice in today's day and age of like being intentional of knowing what you're doing. Hey, I have the most fun and do the best work when I have that like child, like awe and wonder. And most people would just think, Oh, I need to just grow revenue as much as possible. But to your point, if you become a slave to the business, number one, you're not going to have fun and you probably won't even be as effective or productive because the business is just controlling you.

And I don't think anyone really talks about that. So I love that you guys said that that's actually a good inspiration for us as well. What's the best way for people to connect with you if they want to learn more about what you've both got going on, mana, etc?

Speaker 5: Yeah, just on the, uh, if you just go to the website, manavitality.

com. Um, Manavitality for Instagram. Um, Yeah, that's where you can get us.

Speaker 2: [00:48:00] Awesome. Well, thank you both so much for making the time to do this. I think both Harry and I were, We had this anticipation that the conversation was going to be really, really good. Um, and I think you also, you blew our expectations out of the water.

And so thank you for being here. Thank you for the commitment to excellence and the quality and the mission that you guys have too. I think the world just needs more brands like you guys. So thank you for leading from the front and just excited to see where the relationship and the friendship goes from here.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Thank you, brother. Yeah. I'd just like to say this has, uh, been an incredible podcast for us because it gives us the opportunity to really like sit in it with other co founders, um, and really dive into some really inspiring parts of the journey to say, so thank you for what you guys are doing too.

It's really, really important. Um, and we deeply appreciate it.

Speaker 3: Yeah. A lot of the information that you guys kind of brought up and I think we've shared it

Speaker 5: before. A hundred percent. And I can

Speaker 3: really feel the energy and the brotherhood from the [00:49:00] two of you as well. I'm super excited and inspired with what you guys are doing and with what you're creating and you've got much more of a network effect than what we've got because you guys are starting much earlier.

So yeah, congratulations on everything you're doing. Thanks so much for today. Looking forward to working together to, uh, create heaps of magic.

Speaker: Yeah, maybe a noble, uh, mana shake here in the future. Hundred percent. Yeah. Love it. Awesome. Thanks guys.

Speaker 5: Thank you.

Speaker: Thank you.