The Meat Mafia Podcast

Alysa full ep
===

[00:00:00] Welcome back to the meet mafia podcast. Thank you for having me. It's good to be here guys. It's been a year Maybe I think maybe even a little over a year. Oh my god. Yeah, I think close to a year. Yeah, just about a year Yeah, time flies time does fly It's great to have you back. Thank you. It's good to be here.

Yeah, I, I highly recommend if someone is like just getting introduced to you for the first time, definitely listen to our part one with you because we went over your entire founder story, which was incredible. But just to give the audience like a little tea, like a reconnection point of how we met. So before we had ever met you or knew who you were, we were at the What Good Shall I Do conference that Force of Nature puts on every single year.

And so I think the first year was 2022, and they had these amazing big tubs, like gallons of bone broth. And they were talking about this brand called Fond, and Harry and I had never heard about Fond before. And we were, you know, we were conditioned with some of these other brands that are, that are good.

It's like easy, accessible bone broth, but they, a lot of them lack flavor. So I was finding that you'd have to like [00:01:00] mix it with butter and throw in spices and stuff like that. And I was like, all right, let me try this and see if it's good. So I remember getting a nice glass of it. And just being blown away by the flavor.

And I think Harry and I had like an entire gallon to ourselves. Like we loaded up like ten times each. I was just sitting by it. Yeah. So good. Yeah, like the flavoring of it was, like just the, the flavoring of it. The fact that it's all regenerative. The fact that you're a Christian business owner too, there were just so many principles around your brand that Harry and I have absolutely loved and you're genuinely one of our favorite people in the space.

So we're just so good to see you and dig into it all. Yeah, I'm not sure if I've had bone broth that has the spices that you guys have in yours that actually makes it flavorful. Um, so yeah, you guys crushed it with the product. Thanks. Yeah, it's one of my goals in making it, right? So I have this experience with it, this crisis, and this beautiful thing comes out of it.

God sort of leads me to, hey, bone broth is what I need to heal. And then I do it, and I'm like the world's pickiest eater, which we've talked about, so I make it taste good. Yes. And I think that's the [00:02:00] thing that, you know, I knew if people were going to do this every day, like, I just didn't like the idea of, like, You know, you kind of pinch your nose and like take it down, but I want it to be like an experience where you're like, yes, right.

And there can be kind of like this ritual around it where you're like, I'm nourishing my body. My body knows what to do with it. It tastes good. Like you have something about that too. Yeah. It's interesting how in the carnivore space. Or the animal based space. There's like this aversion to spices and seasonings and things like that and I get it right.

I've done the strict carnivore with just salt and it's worked really well for my gut. But I've also talked about this before. I feel like sometimes when I eat carnivore, it just feels like there's this like there's just something missing from the plate. And I just love the fact with the spices, with the turmeric you put in, the cracked pepper.

I don't know, I feel like there's just a certain, like, vitality to those things that you throw in there where you, where you feel it and it just lifts you up a little bit. Yeah, [00:03:00] I definitely, there's a place, the way that we approach sort of the carnivore diet in general is like it's a place for healing, but it's not meant to be Like the long time and I shared it with you guys, we, we went like too hard into keto and it put my fight or flight in just overdrive.

And it was just everything and it was really good for performance for a while, right? I'm a mom of, I was a mom of four at the time, now I'm a mom of six. We were running a small business, we were like definitely burning the candle at both ends and it fueled that for a time. But then it was like it almost, that scarcity mindset.

We're just like too it was too much and so we started incorporating now I call us like, you know paleo plus raw dairy and that's like 90 percent of our diet and then we do do like Fermented sourdough like for about 10 percent of it for those who can tolerate it in our family but we yeah, like I think the the spices one of the interesting things about creating these flavors is each one of them Was [00:04:00] created and even with the tallow as we'll get into with like a purpose in mind And so the shiitake shallot and sage like beta glucans in mushrooms are water soluble And I wanted the immunity and the heart Helping properties and like we've never tested this flavor for like what are the level of This is like one of the first times I'm talking about the fact that there are beta glucans in here.

But I was doing it at a time when, like, my body needed help. I needed the immunity. And pairing that with a shallot and then a sage for an aromatic, that works on a palate level, but then there's like something else that's happening here. And it just like blows my mind how creative God is and how deeply he provides for us.

But like, Sage is good for memory, right? There are polyphenols in the sage that not only complement that flavor, but like there's something else that's going on where like it makes it more easy for the body to absorb [00:05:00] that. And so the turmeric and cracked pepper that you mentioned, like the reason I put those flavors together is studies have shown that when you combine turmeric with cracked pepper, it boosts the effectiveness of that curcumin 2000%.

And so in the tallow that we launched, like one of the things that we. In continued research, you're like, okay, but turmeric's fat soluble, right? That curcumin needs a little bit of fat. So we recommend that customers puree butter in that, have, you know, liquid light, that flavor, that turmeric and cracked pepper with a little bit of like raw cream in it, just coconut milk, something to help absorb that.

So that's why, you know, in the tallow line that we've launched, the turmeric and cracked pepper appear again. Because this is much good, Tasting, like those flavors really compliment. They're both peppery and floral and they work really great in food, but then they also benefit each other like on some sort of, I dunno, just a really intricate level where the body then can use that better.

So I love that it's, it's both a flavor [00:06:00] play in a nutrient density. Mm, play. Yeah. Doesn't it blow your mind how like some of these foods can just come together and create complimentary flavors and nutritional benefits? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember the first time I learned like. Uh, avocado and tomato, like there's something that's happening there where like the lycopene and tomato is like much more easily absorbed by the body because of the fat that the avocado provides.

And then like, how many times do you have avocado and tomato together? Like it's just like our bodies know intuitively, oh, like these things taste good together and you know, they were created to compliment. So it's fun to find those things. Definitely. Yeah. The pair for you of the, the flavor and the nutrient density is so interesting because it goes hand in hand.

And I think. In Western society, we think that there's a compromise where if something is healthier and nutrient dense, it can't taste good, which we found, the three of us know, it's actually the complete opposite, and that's why your product is so amazing, because I can, we can confidently say it is by far the best bone broth out of a [00:07:00] jar we've ever had.

And it's absolutely nutrient dense, too, where you're only using regenerative bones, too. Like, you have those really strong operating principles, which speaks a lot to who you guys are as a brand, because I'm sure, oh, the concept of saying, oh, regenerative sounds great, and then you look at the margins of regenerative versus if you just use conventional bones.

Like, that's a principles driven business. Yeah, it is, and it's an impact driven business, too. I think one of the things, when, We went to our first farmer's market and, you know, Isaac's actually, my husband's favorite memory is dropping me off for my first farmer's market and he's like, I have no idea how this is going to go.

It's 100 degrees. She's got coffee cans full of bone broth. What is, and I sold out. And he just remembers coming back and a smile on my face and the sign says sold out. And so when we knew it was something. Right? We were like, okay, we've been sourcing these at the farmer's market. Like, how do you grow a business?

How do you, and I remember like when we were, we applied for H E B's Quest for Texas Best program back in 2017, we're [00:08:00] trying to educate them on regenerative and it was just like There was no framework for that. And so what's been so cool is to keep telling that story and to keep working with those sourcing partners and to grow with them and to now where it's like we can offer a nationwide product that has room to grow because these people have been doing these things along with us.

And so we really, both Isaac and I, have like agrarian, uh, Um, grandparents, like they're deep in agriculture, and we, we know the nobility of that profession. I think what we've had to, like, wrestle with is some of the negative impacts, right, of traditional farming, like pumping that ammonious, you know, Nitrate into the ground instead of rotational grazing or using manure.

And so as we think about the impact we want to have for our boys, for the future, in selling every jar of this product, it is supporting these farmers that are doing that noble work, right? But [00:09:00] that are also leaving the world better than they found it. And I think, you know, as we teach stewardship in our home, like, what does it, what does that mean?

Right? To have dominion over the earth is that, like, that, that God mandate. The co creator position that we have. Is that to be like lorded over? Is that to be like, no, it's much more of like a husbandry approach. It's much more of like a, let's facilitate this flourishing. Um, and so, you know, our kids maybe politically grow up a little bit bipolar cause like we definitely believe in climate change and like that has to happen.

We definitely believe we have to support small businesses and that like local governance is like the most important. All right. You know, political infrastructure to be involved with. So, um, you know, can you, um, Can you think of a time where you felt like was there ever a moment where you guys Thought about not doing it regeneratively and thought about coming out with [00:10:00] like bones that were just from conventional.

So Yeah, I think when we make a decision we also look at what's available in the marketplace And we felt like there were a lot of brands solving the organic

issue. Like if you just cared about organic bones that were, you know, grass fed mostly, right? There were brands that were doing that. I think for us, the decision to, you know, Like we call this, um, it's without compromise, like everything we do is, you know, flavor without compromise. We're not using MSG.

We're not using yeasts. We're using these like, we're using a high quality mineral salt. That's part of what you're tasting in there. We're using really intelligent herb pairings, right? We're using regeneratively raised beef that has It's better omega 6 to omega 3 ratios. [00:11:00] We believe and we know that that impacts the taste and flavor.

So for us it was always a question of how can we be the best. Um, and looking and seeing other people are solving. So if you, if you don't care about regenerative, you can buy that organic product. Um, but no, it was never from the beginning. Like we just, that was also when, you know, confessions of a lunatic farmer came out and we just were like, we have to support people who are doing this.

I think the question was like, which thankfully we haven't had to navigate because the regenerative movement has grown with us. The question was if we ever get to a point where there aren't enough bones. Would we do a grass fed, grass finished, organic product? And just thankfully, you know, we haven't had to deal with that, but from the beginning we wanted to source regeneratively.

Um, I was so sick that I could tell the difference between conventionally raised beef and grass fed grass finished from my local [00:12:00] farm, um, and not my local farm, the local farm that we support. Um, and the difference was like, and Isaac would notice it too, and he wasn't in as much of a health crisis, but I just think it's interesting when you pay attention to it.

Like this conventional beef, because for a while we were like, is there a difference? You know, can we just buy the USDA grade choice beef from Costco? We have a family, a large family at Call It A Day. We felt like our tongues were coated in plastic. I mean, we just like, we did not feel well eating that level of meat and um, and at the time I felt sicker actually eating beef that was conventionally raised than just not eating it at all and just eating like, you know, the local pasture raised chicken.

So for us, we noticed it the most with the beef. I think it's because we've always bought, you know, chicken at the farmer's market. We didn't notice it as much on the chicken, but the beef was a really big difference. And so. That's part of why we've always done it that way is we notice the impact on our own bodies and just like, you know, we [00:13:00] make this product as much for our family as we do other people.

We made it for us, but we knew we wanted to share it with others. And so every decision and even our investors are on board with this, like, They ask me, Hey, would you feed this to your family? And if the answer is no, then we don't want to do it. Yeah. So that's also been a guiding principle in the beginning of like, you know, we just wanted to provide a premium option out there for people who were like, I just, I just want the best.

I just want no compromise. Yeah. It's a great customer base to serve too, because those people that are, Doing all the hours of research trying to find something that hits their standards when they find that brand It's like you just want to go all in and support them as much as possible. Yeah, we have an amazing amazing customer base I mean, you know many of them have been with us through it's a startup, right?

I mean growth is hard it's hard to grow a brand from the farmers market to then like store shelves in Texas than to like nationwide distribution and, [00:14:00] you know, being on every Sprouts shelf in the U. S. Those are big things to navigate and like navigating suppliers. We had to change shipping partners.

They started shipping everything upside down. So like every subscriber is showing up for like 90 days with like a broken jar and we were like, we're so sorry, we'll replace it. Yeah. Right. And that's what it's like. So, so yes, they're amazing. They've been with us through a lot of working out those kinks.

And now that things is sort of. We're, we're so grateful that they've stayed with us through the ups and downs. Yeah. There's so many steps behind the scenes to go from the bones that you're sourcing to the finished product and the, the blood, sweat and tears. It's a, it's a beautiful process and you just have to learn from all the adversity.

It's like we've, we've already learned in the last year of noble, just all the things that can go wrong, but then. They go wrong and then you learn from it and you correct it and your customer, I don't know. I think a lot of customers also appreciate the fact that it's a startup and a small business and the founders are just laying it all on the line.

[00:15:00] But this is a really interesting time for Fond because I know we've got the beef tallow right there too. So you just launched. Your line of beef tallow products, which is so exciting because yes I don't think there's a better fat to be able to cook with and beef tallow and like you guys really embody that return to Tradition not just with bone broth, but also now with with cooking fat as well, too Yeah, we like to say, you know, we're returning to flavor make most people don't know this but McDonald's their fries became famous Because they cooked them in tallow And now, they cook them in like, a list of a bunch of ingredients with beef flavoring.

Yeah. And there's something about just, you know, returning to that traditional method. Like, there's wisdom in why people did things. It helps to use more of the animal for these regenerative farms that we're sourcing from, but it also has such a high smoking point that it prevents the oil. So, like, Even a really good high quality olive oil, most of them tap out at like 410, [00:16:00] 425, and then turn toxic right in the heat process.

So, better as a finishing oil. I actually shoot olive oil, so I'm not like here for the olive oil lovers. Um, I love it too. I'm not hating on that, but there's a place for that. And tallow, there's a really, like we, we sear our steaks with it, we're roasting vegetables in it, we're, you know, frying eggs in the morning with it, we put it in our scramble, like it has a place in our life.

I think why I love it as a nutrient density play, so bone broth helps heal and seal the gut so you can absorb nutrients from the good food you're already eating. Tallow in a very similar way helps you absorb those fat soluble vitamins that like Americans are chronically low in. A. D, E, Ks, right? And so if you're eating these nutrients, but you're eating them with like a seed oil, or you're eating them with, you know, no oil at all, right, and you're just like munching on some kale, there's a lot of anti nutrients, there are absorption issues.

And so I [00:17:00] love tallow also for the flavor play, of course, but also the nutrient density of it absorbing more of the nutrients from the good food you're already eating. Um, I wanted to release this product in 2019. Um, I wanted to call it flavored meat butter. So aren't we glad that like, rough drafts aren't, you know, the first thing we launch with.

Right? I mean, it's easy. Um, but I wanted to flavor it as well. Right? And so I'm a big fan of chili crisp. I like, love chili crisp. Sometimes it's called chili crunch and it's always made with a seed oil. And so one of the things I wanted to do and one of the flavors that we released is a garlic and chili tallow.

There's no seed oil in it. It's infused right into the tallow and you can infuse that delicious flavor into the vegetables, the steaks, the things that you're cooking with without making that kind of like nutritional compromise, right? So, um, also things like shortcuts in the kitchen, rosemary and pink [00:18:00] peppercorn is another flavor that we have.

And just the aroma of the rosemary is so great. And I don't have to go out to my garden and like pick it and chop it. Like sometimes if I choose to do that, that's great. But it's also nice that I can have So, um, I'm going to be talking about the benefits of the rosemary in the tallow already. So also trying to provide those kitchen shortcuts there.

So funny enough, Bretton, Bretton mines first. So we started the podcast, um, about like six months and we're like, we would love to get a product to market. So. And so we're going through all the different iterations of what we wanted to bring to market, and the, the one that we landed on and started to act on was, uh, flavored beef tallow.

What? Yeah. Yeah. We got a logo for it and everything. Yeah. Wow, that's so fun. Yeah. It's funny, because we have a really good friend. He used to live in town. Um, this great chef, his name is Miles, Miles Schneider. Okay. And so he's got this big cooking cohort where he teaches people just kind of how to like, Yeah.

Upgrade their cooking game, but do it in a very healthy way. Mmm. And one of his, [00:19:00] like, one of my favorite recipes that he talks about is um, this like, Talo chili oil that he would cook. With his eggs and he said it's like the biggest upgrade for your eggs Yes, the fact that you literally made that product is so cool because I'm like I want to make all my eggs with it Yes.

Yeah, it's like it's not an overwhelming flavor. It's like we're building flavor and I think that's the other thing that it's really hard and like uh, so if you think about Talkies. If you think about Doritos, if you think about these, like, the way that we experience flavor in America is extremely toxic.

Um, Gatorade. Like, just these sort of very, it's like, it's overwhelming flavor, it's neurotoxic, it's so bad for you. So then if you experience a product that has natural flavor, It's, it's a totally different flavor experience. I think what we also navigate in teaching people as well is like flavor doesn't overwhelm, it builds.

So you may sear a steak with the rosemary [00:20:00] tallow and be like, huh, you know, I thought it, the rosemary was going to be super pungent. And it's like, it's there. But it's, it's in a way that it complements the steak instead of sort of overwhelming it and we're just sort of in this culture of like everything is just to the max all the time.

My flavor, you know, my taste buds are overwhelmed and that's why it excites these excitotoxins and I want to eat more of it and then oh my gosh I'm through a bag of chips. So it's just, it's been really interesting too as like a company. People didn't believe when we launched the bone broth initially that there wasn't.

artificial flavoring in it. They just didn't believe it. They were like, this tastes too good. What are you, how are you cheating? Right? And so it's just a, it's a really interesting, like it's been interesting to play with flavor, to love being in that space and to also have to be like, no good food can actually taste good.

Yeah. Right. That like good for you doesn't have to, you know, taste bad, but also flavor and the way we experience it, [00:21:00] especially in a lot of these, like. snack foods marketed towards children is really, it's poisonous. And so how do we sort of relearn what food is supposed to taste like in that context?

That's been a very interesting. Um, just thing for us as parents, as business owners that are also teaching our customers too of varying ages. It's just been interesting. Have you read the book, The Dorito Effect? No. You have to read it. Okay, I'm going to read it. It's so good. It's so good. It talks about this concept, concept of nutritional wisdom and just how our, Tongues are designed to teach us what's nutritious and what's not, and he tells so many cool stories in it.

I just, I feel like what you're just talking about is exactly that. It's like we have this innate design that tells us what we should and shouldn't be eating. But we have all these processed foods now that really disrupt that, that connection. Like they're trying, like they're trying to cheat it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a really helpful [00:22:00] exercise for anyone that like, if you're going from processed foods to then doing like a whole foods diet for 30 days, try eating some of those processed foods again. And you can really, like you were saying how, I think you were saying when you were sick, your palate got really nuanced where you could tell if it was like grain fed versus grass finished.

And the same thing is true with processed foods. It's like that thing, like that sweetness of the Gatorade that you thought tasted so good. You try and taste it after 30 days and you're like, This is like overly sweet or like my body doesn't know what to do with it. Yeah. It's so interesting. Yeah. I would love to take a steak with the rosemary tallow and then roast some garlic in there too.

Yes. And just baste the steak with all that. It's probably so good. It is. It's so good. And so, it's also a question of patience, right? Like when we wanted to launch these in 2019, my team was like, hey, these are really amazing, but we don't know that anyone will know what to do with it. Yeah. Or what tallow is.

And so, to sit on this product. And to kind of watch the market [00:23:00] come to this, really on its own, just like, how did we get seed oils? Oh, interesting. Like canola oil is like a byproduct of like a military, I mean, it's like so messed up and gross. And then they had to market it because they had to do something with it and how many times it has to be processed.

And then we're eating this and why, right? And just the number of products that are made differently in the U. S. versus. Europe I mean really anywhere else and what we're what we allow ourselves to be fed here I love to see the awakening like it is so cool And I mean, it's five years later right 2019 to 2024 But I'm very proud that they're out here and I I can't wait for people to be able to play with them do you feel like the awakening this time around is like more real in terms of the Momentous shift that's happening.

Yeah, I used to make this analogy that when I would try to sell bone broths to people and [00:24:00] I'm like I'm literally trying to give you something that is good for you I was like dancing on one foot spinning eight plates in the air like you're gonna love it and people were like, okay I'll try it. You know, I mean, it's just so hard to get people to try it and then they would love it But with the tallow it's been like hey, you know, we're doing this to get Take I want it right.

I mean, it's like you barely finished the sentence. Yeah, and so I love that and I think There's a lot that happened There was a lot that happened in the past two years Culturally just with people being like, huh are the things that doctors most doctors right are recommending for me. Are those really?

Good for me. Are those the things that I should do? I have a really good doctor There are really good doctors, but there's just some Things, right, where you're like, okay, are you, are you giving that to me because you get a pharmaceutical kickback? Yes. Like what else does that play here? Um, and so I think there's been an awakening.

I also think, I mean, I'm sure you guys have seen it, but like cancer is rapidly [00:25:00] rising between 20 and 40. What is that? What's happening there?

Cancer rising
---

And a lot of it is colon for men. And it's like this, oh my goodness, like we. How can we stop this? How can we start normalizing like, Hey, what is like a normal bowel movement?

Men also don't go to the doctor as regularly. So it's like, and they're more like quiet suffers, like, Oh, it'll be fine. Well, then all of a sudden you're like, Oh my goodness. No, this is like, this is deadly. We have to start addressing this. And so I think they're, they're calling, you know, Gen Z generation health.

There's a lot of smart reasons why the increase in cancer may be watching parents age faster than we thought. Like our grandparents maybe weren't as affected by the processed food and the standard American diet because they didn't deal with that their entire lives. Our parents, you know, our generation or maybe my generation, um, is dealing with that a lot of like, [00:26:00] okay, if you grew up on cereal.

You're arthritic by the time you're 30.

Banger
---

Yeah. Also this like crazy alcohol culture that was like allowed to be, um, basically, I mean, the amount of people that are in their thirties that have gone all the way through Alcoholics Anonymous. And then you see this kind of zero proof movement coming out to where it's like alcohol is going to be the next cigarettes.

Like, wow, this wasn't good for me. And culturally, this was like totally. I mean, no one even thought twice about it, right? Where at least now some people are like, Hey, what is this doing for you nutritionally? What is it costing you physically? Like those sorts of things. So I think there's a lot of reasons why that's happening.

Um, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, I, I remember, so my family is, we've consumed raw milk for nine years. Our oldest son is 11 and we, I remember we would, we just like didn't tell [00:27:00] people. We were like Just people thought you were crazy 10 years ago. We were like, no one gets to, we would call it milk from the farm.

So like our kids, if they accidentally told a friend, we would just do milk from the farm. Okay. You know, and it's like, but we didn't, and now to just see people waking up to like, this is good for me. Um, and I, you know, I credit my mother in law with that. And I used to bring to like my chagrin. I used to bring like store bought milk to their house when Isaac and I were engaged.

Cause I was just not ready, but like she let me, and that's what I think is so important. Like she let me discover why. And then it wasn't forced on me. And so I'm, you know, I think I, I see FOND as like providing opportunities for people to engage with something in its purest form, like our, our plain tallow is called pure and unflavored.

You know, we've got that plain pure and unflavored bone broth. We also have like the flavor ones that you can really have fun with and enjoy, but it's like wherever [00:28:00] you're at. If you want to fry an egg or if you're like really sick and just need a product that is as clean as you can humanly buy, you know, we can engage with you at that point, too.

So, I mean, I think to answer your question in a long rabbit trail, I think there's a lot of things happening culturally that are positive. Like, being healthy is cool now. Yes. Yeah. Like, that is great. It's been a while since that's been the thing. Like, has that happened in American culture?

Banger
---

Oh my gosh. Like, I don't know.

Yeah. Um, but I love that part. And I also think there are some really scary things that are happening in the amount of, like, heart disease, cancer specifically, high blood pressure, you know, is that because we're all, like, extremely caffeinated all the time? Mm hmm. Like, I mean, there's just, and then there's real nutritional deficiencies.

Um, the other thing that, you know, I used to do, which people thought was crazy is, I mean, I was like, there's no way I'm taking birth control. There's no way I'm synthetically giving myself a hormone to stop something natural. And so [00:29:00] Isaac and I, you know, we love having six kids and that's part of a decision that we made, but now to see that it's like becoming normal as a woman to ask questions about this and to be like, wait a minute, I don't want to be force fed.

Something that disrupts my natural cycle. There are other ways around this, right? There are ways that I can intelligently navigate this if I don't want to have children right now or for years. And so I love, I love to see that too. I just think it's like, I would love to hear what you guys think is driving it, but I think it's a really beautiful time.

Such a, there's so much good, there's so much good information on what you just said too. Like even the thing around, um, this epidemic of, you young men getting cancer, colon cancer in their 20s to 40s, like anyone that has Um, IBD that has gotten a colonoscopy in their 20s will tell you, like, even though it was really intrusive, like, why are men waiting until 50 days?

Like, why is that societally accepted? Why do we not know how to interpret, [00:30:00] like, our blood work that can literally tell you, Hey, your inflammatory markers are really high, you should start treating that. It's like, we're catching a lot of this stuff until it's way too late. And also to your point, like, when you just very simply look at, A lot of the inputs of modern society, the outputs and the negative health outcomes make a lot of sense to you.

Um, yeah, overload. Yeah, but it's encouraging. That's one of the encouraging things about social media is I think you were saying it fond. You're just offering options like kind of similar to what your mother in law did to you because That's the one of the benefits of social media is that you just hope that you continue to put out content And then that right piece of content catches the right person And then they have that like intrinsic desire to change because until you have that it doesn't it doesn't really matter But once you get it, then people are like, oh like give me the bone broth.

Give me the beef tallow Give me the regenerative farming. Yeah, because once you see it, you can't unsee it. It's just they're your way of life. Yeah Yeah, I feel, I think COVID did a lot of good for the health movement also. Yeah. Or it pointed [00:31:00] out, at least to me, and I think like a lot of friends that I have who don't take their health as seriously, that a lot of people have lost the plot.

Like just starting to question like, why are they recommending this? Right. If like, you know, putting, wearing masks, like that was clearly something that didn't end up working. And they told us to do it. It was harmful. What else should we question? Yeah. Yeah. It was harmful to, like, psychologically harmful to children.

And I hope that they, I mean, children are so resilient and I hope that they can recover from it. But it's like, I mean, it was harmful. Definitely. And that was something that wasn't even really talked about. It was all, like, fear around the pathogenic, like, the virus. It wasn't around the psychological impact that those kids would have to live with the rest of their lives.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can remember, you know. And people thought I was so cruel, but I can remember being in a store and there was a child and she was, you know, I think about two, her dad was holding her and she wasn't wearing a mask and I wasn't wearing a [00:32:00] mask and everyone else in the store was wearing masks.

And I smiled at her and I remember her being like, and then like, you know, and her smiling back at me. And I was just like, this should not be a rarity. Yes. Like. This human connection between strangers and think about that like not being able to see someone's face Yeah unsettling that is and yeah, you can read their eyes But anyway, we could talk for a long time about that, but I think that it's just yeah, it's I love the awakening That's happened.

It's it's a really cool time to as a brand. It's like the You know, teach Amanda fish thing, right? Like we can give you those nuggets about your health and then you're going to look into 12 different things and come back. And we've had customers who've come back and then educated us on something, right?

Cause they went down a rabbit hole and we're like, thank you for sharing that. We're going to share that with the rest of the fond family, right? So it's, it's definitely, we're feeling it though. That's amazing. And what I love about your guys products is that [00:33:00] you guys do have those building block products, like a bone broth and beef fat that It's like every dish that you cook you can include one of those two things or you could you know You could have beef tallow with on its own or you can use it as skincare product Yeah, or you can use bone broth just on its own as a fast So there's so many you use cases for it, but they are like just those basic building blocks that can get you healthy Yeah Yeah foundational foods like we really wanted to be able to provide these things that we felt were fundamentally Missing.

Right? Good quality bone broth on a culinary level, you know, and this is a quote that a lot of people have talked about, but Augustus Gauffier, chef of kings, king of chefs, used it in like 273 of his recipes and it's like a 312 recipe cookbook. I mean, it's like broth is everything in cooking. It is the foundation for flavor.

And then what you figure out is like, you [00:34:00] look at it on a, on the amino acid profile with the protein and you're like, Oh, this is like foundational building blocks for cells. Yeah. Right? So then you're like, okay, so this actually has a really important place in every meal. And rounding out, you know, maybe the amino acid profile, increasing the protein content like there's, and doing it as a gentle alternative to fasting.

Some people will never be able to fast on water for a prolonged period of time, but they can fast with bone broth, right. And do a meaningful three day reset or something that, you know, activates those intestinal stem cells to go and repair. Other parts of the body and they couldn't get to that level of a top just with water I mean, they just they can't do it.

Bone broth & tallow uses
---

So We're happy to meet them where they are Yeah, I think we probably talked about this the first time he came on the podcast, but um one of our friends dr Mary care who's a functional medical practitioner out of Dallas. She's huge on a 72 hour bone broth fast [00:35:00] I think she might allow you to put some black coffee in there but she basically says that like Because, you know, we talk so much about fasting, but until you've done like a 72 hour either a water fast or even a bone broth fast, the, like this, it's like the, it's hard.

And then like the, it feels like the lights turn back on to like, it just rewires your entire relationship with food. It's so interesting. Yeah. You know, Isaac right now I'm breastfeeding, so I don't, I'm not fasting right now, but even on the days when he's doing a fast or a prolonged fast, the way that our family kind of.

Just looks differently at our meal. Like, fasting and taking, it's so interesting just to see like, Oh, like eating is, this is like a, It's something that I shouldn't take for granted. It's commonplace. In America we have abundance. But is it like that everywhere else? And it's like that, his intentional abstinence from something, just the way that it like, You realize how [00:36:00] much you can orient your life around food and the next meal.

It's been a really interesting, um, cultural experience for our family. And then of course, like, health benefits for him as well. And, um, I, it's one of those things that when I'm breastfeeding, I miss it. I miss that, like, feeling of reset. And like you said, that moment where my body just is like, yes. But it's, again, it's seasons as well.

You know, it wouldn't be wise for me to do that right now. Yeah. Speaking about, um, You're talking about breastfeeding and being a mom. Could you comment on like the actual reality of Like throwing your heart and soul into this incredible business That's extremely difficult and also being a wife and a mom to six boys as well, too Yeah, it's it's so interesting because you know people when people meet me they think having six children is like the hardest part of my life and I think that is so sad that we see children that way because I would tell you when I'd take an inventory of like the last decade, the best [00:37:00] thing about my life is my children.

Bar none. Yes, I've been able to create like an amazing company. I work with amazing people, but my children and like we're very, I am very success oriented. I'm definitely a product of American culture. Um, I want to achieve things and I want to be competitive and what my children have done to let me know I'm more than my work, I'm more than my career.

You guys know, I mean, we've had devastating events in this business. We've had days when like I know why founders of other businesses have taken their lives because you, you work towards something and you can lose it. I mean, we, we've had fires that have burned down warehouses. We have had predatory lawsuits that I, you're just like, how could someone do this to me?

Um, and I come home, which is for me walking from [00:38:00] my garage studio that we've converted past my garden into my house. And I'm in a completely different world. And I'm playing with my children and I'm talking to them about their day and we're, we don't do TV. Um, so, you know, we play games at night like we play Kid Carcassonne or Happy Salmon or Cockroach Poker or we just have conversations or we go for walks and like we play, you know, we play with trains.

And I think just the ability to not just be the founder of FOND. is really healthy for me. Uh, because there are ups and downs. And, you know, I used to see success at Fond, and I wouldn't have told you I saw this, but as a dollar amount that I sold every day. I literally had Shopify notifications turned on, and I told myself, you don't get to turn these off until they are so many that it bothers you.

And then you're kind of [00:39:00] like, well, that's probably. Not healthy, right? And so I modified that behavior and then I was like, okay, you know, I want to make an impact and I used to see that in dollars sold and jars sold and it totally is. There's a very practical correlative element there. But it's also a mom messaging me saying, Hey, thank you for sharing the way that you feed your family.

That's the goal. I'm starting my family. My son is 10 months old. And that's my goal for how I feed my family. And I'm like, yes. So having children has really helped me to be a more balanced person. I just, I kind of have an addictive, very high performance. If I'm not performing, I'm a loser personality. And the unconditional love of my children has been such a grace from God in this time.

That's been really hard, you know, just ups and downs of running the business. But I think also [00:40:00] Americans, um, really see their identity in their work. Like when you go to other cultures, they do not see their identity in what they do for a job. But for us, that's also partly because we do it with most of our time.

So much of our time goes towards it. So to not see your identity in it, like you just see how it's very natural progression. Like if I, if I am, if I do this with 90 percent of my time, how can this not be my identity? And, you know, in one of the hardest seasons of fond, just, just, I called it a stumble run.

It was like, we would get up and we something would hit us and we would get up and something would hit us and we would get it. And it was just like, And I just, I cried out to God and I said, What do you have to say to me during this time? I'm trying to be faithful to you, to share this gift with other people, I believe that you have called me to do this, and it is hard, and it is hurting me.

It's painful. [00:41:00] And I remember very clearly, you know, the Spirit said He will rejoice over you with gladness. He will quiet you with His love. He will rejoice over you with singing. And I was like No! Like, that is so cultural, like it just didn't fit with my, like, but I'm failing. But I'm not succeeding here.

How can you see me in this way? And he's like, I see you completely outside of that. That's not, you know, I delight in you because you're my beloved, because you are my mind's eye, because I have bought you with the blood of Christ and I love you and I adore you and it doesn't matter. How you're performing here.

Thank you for being faithful. And that for me was just so like, um, I'll never forget, you know, when I realized I think Shia LaBeouf was the first person that said it, but I, even as a Christian, I thought if I manage my life well, I'm a good Christian. [00:42:00] And then life happens and there are things you cannot merit manage.

There are things you cannot prepare for. There are things that, they're, they're tragedies and one of the things I had to realize is, you know, I think I was mad that God and His sovereignty didn't prevent the fire from happening. Like, you know, we lost over five million dollars just that year in that event and the, the just terrible waterfall that happened from that, even surviving it, which I'm so grateful that we did.

We still kind of see the impact every day. And I had to just come to this point where I was like, So like, where were you? Where were you when this happened? What? Like, how could you let this happen when we were trying to do good? And there was this point where I was led into, like, Jesus was [00:43:00] grieving with me.

He was there. He saw it happen. He was sad about it. There's this part where, like, this is the already and the not yet. Like, I don't get to have everything I want here. Things don't get to be apart from sin and death and the fall here. Things don't get to be perfect yet. And there are glimpses of that, like what Tolkien calls that final victory, but there's also, you know, he, he says, I'm such a nerd, you guys, but in Lord of the Rings, they talk about, you know, Galadriel is speaking of Gandalf and she says, together through the ages we have fought the long defeat.

And Tolkien comments on this and he says, you know, as a Christian, indeed a Roman Catholic, I believe in a final victory. But I believe history has been a long defeat, and we have only seen glimpses of that final victory. And I think, just, there's just a, like, whether it's age, you know, I'm gonna be 35 in August.

[00:44:00] Whether it's, like, a few more times around the sun. Whether it's, like, okay, now, you know, having children and seeing the tremendous value that investing in them is. As well as having a business and seeing, like, there is value in investing in this business as well. They're different things. But I cannot expect from myself, from my team, from my children, perfection.

And I wouldn't have said that's what I was doing, but it is the standard that I had. And so I think, you know, hopefully going through this experience, I'm more gracious towards my people, but also myself and my children. more understanding. Like I always think, you know, what is God, like, why am I going through this issue?

Who am I going to tell about this in the future? Or who am I going to be able to encourage, you know? And so we'll see. I don't know the end of those things yet, but, um, so yeah, it's been very rich doing both, I will [00:45:00] say. Very rich, very refining. What, um, what have you learned about business through having a relationship with Jesus?

I'm curious if you think about those two things at the same time. So I think what's funny is like, sometimes if you're a Christian and you're like, I'm doing this for you, Lord, um, you expect that it will grow, like just that you can kind of have this, like, I'm entitled to an easier path. I'm entitled to, and I, again, I would not have said that out loud, but what I realized is, you know, I kind of had this sense of like, God's going to bless this.

And that is. That has been true because I'm doing this for him. I think there's also like, there's always the bridegroom question, right? Like, am I doing this for Elisa's glory or for Jesus? So I can't, and that's a daily thing. That's a daily thing. That's like a, and sometimes even a like, help me to want to do this for your glory and not for my own.

It's like totally transparent. Um, but I think there's [00:46:00] also that like, They're in, in Proverbs, like a lot of the wisdom literature, it talks about being like shrewd, but innocently shrewd, like in business, like there's a, there's a sense of that. We work hard and we are wise and we are insightful and we, we pay our people on time and we take care of our day laborers and we love our employees and we look after their welfare.

They're, you know, one of the things that. I'm very proud of it, Fond, is three babies have been born and women have been supported, besides myself, on our team, through paid leave, through being at Fond. And like, for me, it's like a non negotiable. I'm a woman, I've had several, like, of course I'm going to support you on maternity leave.

Was that a hard decision as a small business? Yes. But it doesn't mean it wasn't the right one. So I think there's, you know, it's, it's, it's also, um. It brings me into contact with people and [00:47:00] opportunities, like there's a lot of missional things of, you know, I was talking to another business owner who was locked out of their, like they were just, the landlord decided, you know, they were done and they were locked out of their production facility and they had a month to month.

And he was like, the shame that I felt at not being able to say yes to orders, to not being able to, you know, and it was something that had happened to him, right? And shame often makes us hide. And I was like, hey, on the business side, I can advise you, you're going to get a co packer and you're going to do this.

And like, this isn't your last day. But this shame part, like that's, that's only Jesus, right? So there's the very practical side of like, Hey, these are the things I've had to learn in this road, but then there's also the things where it's like, hey, you are more than your work. Bad things happen to good people.

Doesn't make you a bad person. And bringing, like, showing them Jesus, [00:48:00] because I think the people who start businesses and want to create value, um, that's a very, like, creation, that's a very, that's a God given desire and a love. That lends itself sort of more easily to those conversations than, than others for me.

That's really well said. I, um, I particularly like the piece where the vulnerability of you saying that, like the identity of me being a Christian business owner. So my path should hopefully be a little bit easier than a lot of other people, because I think that's something that we relate to as well. And, and the strange paradox is that by, God making your path easier that doesn't do anything.

It doesn't test your faith. It doesn't grow your faith. It's like the adversity adversity is what breeds that faith and that character. And I don't know if this is stupid or not, but sometimes I have this like mental model of God, almost like watching my life as a documentary. So he [00:49:00] knows what that final victory is going to be, but you don't know what it is, but he knows what it is.

And it's like being that, faithful servant and a faithful daughter when you're going through that process. But it's a, it's a strange paradox. Yeah. And it's like, you know, I take great comfort and I don't know what this means for fond, but I take great comfort in like the things that are made here having eternal significance and just holding that mystery before the Lord and being like, I don't know what this means.

But I know that the things that I do hear that are of you will have eternal significance. And I think that my hunch is that's, you know, outside of just relationships, but it'll be really interesting to see. Yeah. So, you know, it's always, um, I think it's also, and I'm getting better at this, being transparent about the difficulties.

I think as we get into a digital age where AI can do anything, um, Being real and vulnerable [00:50:00] about, um, some of the struggles, like, I thought that would hurt the brand. To be transparent with people about, hey, we had this, what they call in business, an extinction level event. In hindsight, like, our customers probably would have loved to support us through that.

Totally. And that was, that was my decision in a shame move of like, I'm not going to say anything about this until I solve it. Mm. And what I robbed myself from, in help, in prayer, from the community, in support from our customers who, you know, probably would have loved to help in any way they could. Like I think there's just, that's such a lie, um, but, you know, it's, it's also something like we get chances to, you know.

learn from again and like you said, be refined and to grow. And so, you know, being vulnerable about like, it is super hard to be a mom and run a business. [00:51:00] Um, but there are a lot of practical things. Like for example, I think people don't realize how much time they spend watching TV. So for us just not consuming And maybe now it's like even Tik Tok videos, it's not even like just TV, but it's like, you know, our children don't have cell phones and the amount of just headspace I get back from not doing those things.

I think sometimes I look at people's life and I'm like, wow, like, I don't know how they do that. And it's going from. A peak experience to a peak experience to like just it's like we're just sort of chasing these like endorphin experiences Whether that's like watching something or then eating something and and you're just kind of like wow We're overloading ourselves and we're becoming more anxious And so there are some I think [00:52:00] graces and like a large Family kind of also limits the amount of activities we can do like our boys pick three sports that they're in Mm That's also a lot.

Yeah. But like, we can't do six things every year for every kid. Right? So by just kind of having more, you also have to edit. You edit the list of the things that you do. Yeah, you mentioned um, you mentioned shame, and I'm curious because I've struggled with this a little bit too. Do you think that's a product of perfectionism?

Like feeling like you need everything you need? Right to be right and you're like if it's not you're just kind of like yeah Yeah, I think I think that a lot drives this from a lot of what we see other people experience is only the highlight reel so there is sort of this element of everyone else has it figured out and I don't mm hmm, and that's not true, [00:53:00] but That is what we can tend to believe.

I think that is a, you know when they talk about in the Bible, Satan seeking to steal, kill, and destroy, like those are very disruptive and destructive behaviors, and we can kind of think of like spiritual warfare is like angel on the shoulder, demon on the shoulder, like tempting you in the moment, but I think they're like, they're definitely, we are engaged in a different moment.

battle than we realize. And shame, the way it connects to shame is like, we'll use me as an example, like not sharing, not speaking. Um, I, I robbed myself from the intercession of believers. I robbed myself from, I potentially robbed other people, right? From, oh my goodness, I'm not the only person who struggles with.

And I think that's why, you Church is important, community is important, confession is [00:54:00] important, like all these different aspects. Um, I think shame is really, especially in this culture, a work of Satan to isolate. We are already so isolated. Like if you, if you just think about, you know, people not getting married, not having children, um, this is related.

And it's I think like people figuring out how do I even meet people anymore? Because I'm not gonna go to a bar if I don't drink it's like then do I go to like we are so Isolated and I think shame is such a vehicle for that I don't even feel like I can engage with other people unless I am perfect And then that's like well, no one is how can we so then even if you're engaging with people and you're perfect either you're Really judgmental On other people who don't have all their you know You Stuff together or you're just not even being genuine because you can't be real with people about hey, you know I'm showing up and it's hard.

It's hard to [00:55:00] show up. It's hard to be here Even like I think church community can be hard sometimes because people don't feel like they can show up there unless and this is this is work of Satan to isolate us even further and I think that's really sad and You know We have to push against that. We have to show up.

We have to be real. I mean, for a while, just as like a woman who founds a wellness brand, I didn't think that I could go on social media unless I didn't look tired, unless I wasn't having a breakout, unless I wasn't the ideal weight I wanted to be. And that's just like, okay, sure. Like, like, let's even just say I could My baby sleeps through the night and there's nothing hormonally that's causing anything on my face.

And you know, I There's they're engaging with me in a way that is artificial, [00:56:00] right? So, I think there's just a lot I think there's a lot of pressures tremendous amount of pressure There's filters that cut out like smile lines. Oh my gosh, and you're just like So I'm going to look old even if I'm not old because I'm showing my smile lines, right?

And so it's just one of those things where I think we'll continue to, and just for me as again, as a woman, like the amount of 20 year olds who are getting a preventative Botox and I'm just like, wow, you know, I, I wish that you could feel freedom from that. And yet I also, right, struggle with that same pressure.

To be like, man, I, I didn't in my 20s feel like having kids affected my face. Now in my 30s, I can tell when I haven't had a good night's sleep. Right? And so you also start to wrestle with some of your finitude. Like, [00:57:00] okay. I'm not, I'm definitely not old, but it's like, I'm not going to be young forever. I'm not 21 anymore, right?

I can't just do these things to my body and it doesn't matter. So like sleep, not sleeping. So I think there's just, you know, there's a whole bunch of things going on there. Hmm. And yet customers are like, we're at this point now where I think. The brands that really are winning are from the founders that truly are the most authentic.

Like customers are craving that, like they, they want to feel like they know you. They want you to be able to talk about the sleepless nights and trying to drive your son to baseball practice and then take this customer meeting and like, yeah, like we're craving the realness because for so long it's just been like these like curated feeds and brands and like there's no heart and soul there at all.

medium maybe? On founder pressures.
---

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it's unsustainable. So we're like, how do you do it? Oh. You don't it looks a little differently. Yeah. Yeah How important has your husband Isaac been just with everything that you're doing? [00:58:00] Isaac is so incredible because I mean people don't really know but like he isn't and he is an incredibly talented Filmmaker and videographer and He gave up his profession so that we could start Fond.

And he's been able to use it in Fond, and like, we definitely made this decision as a family that this was the lifestyle we wanted to have. We wanted to be able to have more time with our kids. We both work from home. We see our kids a lot. It's funny, our kids will be like, we never get to see you. And Isaac's like, yes, yes you do.

You do get to see us a lot. Um, but, you know, there's, um, He is also a rock for me, like I call him my 6 1 Xanax as I've told you before, especially navigating like some of my most intense fundraising conversations have just happened to be when I was pregnant or postpartum, which is a crazy, time to be having [00:59:00] a high pressure conversation when your hormones are doing God knows what literally and you're physically vulnerable and there's a reason you feel that way and Historically would have been exempt from engaging with people and yet I have to because it's my job and it's what I've been doing You know been given I need to steward that and so the only way I've been able to do Those things is because Isaac is there supporting me supporting what our family needs supporting what Fawn needs You know, we did our first paleo effects.

The bone breath was selling so fast that overnight Isaac was in the production facility making bone breath when we made it in New Braunfels He made it the entire night so that we could bring it the next day And the air conditioning was out, so it was like 99 degrees. Like, you wouldn't even do that.

Yeah. You'd never do that to an employee. And so, just the things that he has done, but then also, like, the things he continues [01:00:00] to do, you know, like, showing up today, taking care of Sam, so that I can be on the podcast with you guys. And, um, I'm grateful that, you know, Fond is now at a place where he can start doing some of his things again.

And, you know, I've always, it's funny because I'm sort of this. unique animal. Um, I'm a businesswoman, but we're a very traditional family, right? I have six boys, but I'm kind of more in this like feminist role, right? CEO of the company. Um, but I'm very much depend on Isaac for leadership for our family.

There are some days when I just, I can't make a decision that's outside of fond. So like family finances, he's got to He's got to make that decision, right? Cause I'm just like, I'm tapped, you know? So he's an amazing support. He's, you know, a super fan obviously of me. And then, which is nice. I mean, [01:01:00] when you are in this position and you feel a lot of like, there can be a tough investor conversation.

Well, why didn't this happen? Well, why, you know, ultimately. Like, that comes back to me, and if we don't make certain sales goals, I'm the one that has to take the brunt of that, or if we didn't launch a product on time. And so, he also helps me remember that identity, keeps me from shame, and is like, hey, you're more than that.

You know, just the work output that you do, but yeah, he's, he's incredible. I'm so grateful that the boys have him as an example, you know, and, um, who knows what they'll do. They've had a crazy upbringing where, you know, their dad is like the full time parent, right? Um, and I, I love loving on those kids, but I mean, Vaughn takes a lot of time, so they are, their dad is the full time parent and, um.

I think that's been good for them. Like, in God's [01:02:00] sovereignty, I mean, y'all know, little boys are kind of crazy. Oh, for sure. So, for Isaac to be able to, like, I'm not sure that that's not exactly how it should be. Like, he's dealing with the energy and helping them with what they need to do. And, you know, I'm running the business and snuggling them and loving on them in the other times.

What do you think it will be like for them as they get older, having grown up in an entrepreneurial household? I mean, they all want to do their own thing. So that's why I'm just like, you know, um, like our oldest really wants to have a ranch and he grew up as a, I mean, from two years going to ranches and regenerative farms here in Texas.

Um, so you can see that, how that's cool that that's woven as part of his story, like he wants to own a ranch. He's a very, he's almost like a Luddite, like hates technology, like wants to eat out of wooden bowls. And I'm like, you're more extreme than we are. It's like Amish. Yeah, exactly. And so we're like, you know, [01:03:00] balance, balance.

How old is he? Um, he's 11. Okay. So, you know, and then, um, our other son, um, Just is, he's got such a good marketing brain, like we'll be walking through the store and he's like, Mom, did you make your labels like this so they would stick out on shelf? And I was like, Yes, that's exactly why we made them like that.

And he's, you know, and so I can just see he's very business minded. We have one son. We adore him. He's almost feral. Like just, he's our wild boy. And he's like, Ezra, can I live on your ranch and hunt on it? And you know, so we'll see what Jethro does. But, um, And the other ones are pretty little, right? But, you know, they're the three that have kind of started to figure out what they're going to do.

And Isaac being involved in the arts has been a big part of our family culture, like through music and video and just this appreciation. You can tell on our labels, like Isaac oversees like the aesthetic, right? It's definitely, so a lot of music in our house and we'll see what they do. I think that's [01:04:00] so cool too.

You were talking earlier about, um, I think that's so cool too. Like being just a supporter of like artisans and small businesses and just this concept of like, we've lost this in a lot of ways, but I think there's this resurgence of this a family business where parent build something and is able to pass it on to their kids to be able to further the legacy and stuff like that.

Not that you expect that from your sons, but like how cool would that be to like have them shepherd the next stage of the business too. I mean that's definitely, you know, they expect that they're going to be able to run Fond when they grow up. And so that's definitely been, you know, as I told you guys, as we've navigated now sort of three like acquisition conversations and come on the other side, it's sort of like a.

Are we gonna break it to the boys if we do decide that this is what we're supposed to do? But yeah, not it's a not yet, you know But yeah, it's really interesting our neighbor. She flies helicopters for the army or military. I don't know Air Force But she spent four years in [01:05:00] Europe and she said The thing that surprised her when she came back and was, you know, backstationed in America is how corporate focused we are and how much Europe is about supporting the small business.

And like every restaurant she ate at, like the people who owned that business were serving her and like cared about her experience and she was just like, I never had a bad meal because it was always there. livelihood that they were supporting and having integrity in and then just being steeped and immersed in that culture like it's not like She went for a month like she was there for four years and coming back and being like wow everything here is about the large corporation is definitely, um Something that you know, it's hard and takes a lot of courage to be a small business owner right now Yeah, it goes back to that Topic of isolation and yeah, I feel like it's like all kind of a product of industrialization.

Yes We've lost that connection, the, the matrix that [01:06:00] we are designed to live in, uh, not like the matrix is in like corporate America, but like, uh, there's just so many like connections that I think that we've lost just by trying to like put everything on the conveyor belt of efficiency and, you know, global, global trade and things like that.

It's just like we lose so much. Yeah. I mean, it's happened fast. It's just like my grandma remembers when she. Had to go out in the backyard for her mom catch the kitchen the chicken Sorry, and she and her sister would argue about who plucks out the feathers and who slices the throat like that's that's like a generation apart Right.

Yeah, but then you know, my mom never ever they were always buying their chickens from the store I what do you guys think about like the homesteading movement right now? Do you think it's a fad? Do you think it'll keep going like I'm curious for your thoughts on like people kind of moving To that Make it yourself way of life.

I think that there's a lot of people like particularly in the first year or two of COVID that thought that they [01:07:00] wanted a ranch without understanding the work that a ranch actually entails. Yeah. And I think to your point, I think more people, you don't actually want a ranch. You want a homestead. And I do, I think we're going to just continue to see these pockets of people that kind of have this shared ethos, whether they're in like New York city, LA, these more liberal cities that.

do gravitate towards the Floridas of the world, or the Montanas, or the Texases, and things like that. And I think communities are going to continue to get more and more like minded, where people are going to either want to be like, really metropolitan, and be told what to eat, and work their box job, which is, that's your prerogative if you want to do that, and then there's going to be people that do have that more like, libertarian, God fearing, homesteading mindset, and I think we're just going to see this like, chasm between the American population.

I don't know if that's I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but um, that's just the, yeah, that's just what I see happening. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah, I share a similar belief. I feel like there's a schism that's kind of happening [01:08:00] and we're going to see people who are not captured, but who are just involved with or independent on everything that comes from being a part of a corporate system, like they're, they're not going to have any means to go raise their own food, really.

But if you're someone who can make it work, I feel like there's definitely the interest, you know, I think YouTube the number one Ranked search on YouTube during Coven and afterwards was homesteading. So the interest is there Yeah, so the interesting you see I think being Someone who's more familiar than the average American with the supply chain you do just kind of marvel at how fragile it is and And So, you know, we have these six boys, like, we would love to homestead, but we also know, like, practically we're not going to be able to, like, make our own clothes, too.

So there's, anyway, it just made me think about, like, the matrix that you were talking [01:09:00] about, like, we're still going to have to rely on other people, like, I don't like about the homesteading movement, like, the lie of self sufficiency, but I think what I do like about it is, there is an awareness of the dependency on self sufficiency.

Like this system that can fail. And we saw a glimpse of that in COVID and people were like, Oh my gosh, you mean I can't buy toilet paper? Yeah. Like, what am I even gonna do? Totally. You know? So. Totally. Yeah, I think like anything, there's uh, it's easy to be like overly neurotic about this stuff in a negative way where we were just talking about this yesterday with the podcast that we recorded around people that We'll literally never touch seed oils ever, like they won't even go out to eat in a restaurant because they're so nervous about some ingredient or an additive and like, we always talk about, you know, health is resilience.

And the goal is to build resilience. So you can have, you can make these memories and share meals and not worry about stuff. And I also think the same thing is [01:10:00] true with like this, like Doomer homesteading, the world could possibly end mindset where it's like, try and be as autonomous as possible and also understand that there's certain things that you do have to outsource control over and that's totally okay.

I think you should just try and find a really good community where you're around like minded people and like get your hands out in the soil and be around animals and get really good quality food and be exposed to sunshine and build an artisan business and your life's going to be amazing. Have a bunker of fawn tallow.

Yeah. One thing I am really pulling from this podcast too is like, Just the, like doing something like what you're doing is so, it truly is like so difficult. I don't think people really understand like there's like so much joy and there's also like agony and crazy losses and the things that the tricks that your mind plays on you to, but like anchoring yourself to a business where the purpose really does feel a lot greater than yourself.[01:11:00]

Like when we're speaking, I think Harry and I can both tell, like, you truly believe that this is like what God, this is one of the reasons why God put you on this planet is to like spread these foods that he created that we've, lost but we're starting to reclaim. Yeah. And I think when you have something that's that powerful, that's what will propel you to push when you have this like, devastating fire or like, all of the adversity that you've overcome and we've seen it with ourselves too but I don't know, I think that's just a really important piece for someone to grasp is like, what is that like, mission that you can Yeah.

think about every single, like a true, like a damn good mission that you can think about every single day. You know, one of the things that I say is like, God gave me this gift because I was willing to look. And the fact that he's glorified in what I have done in Bone Broth and Tallow like kind of blows my mind.

But we have this, I promise this relates, we have this swallowtail butterfly caterpillar that's eating all my parsley right now. But we watch this caterpillar [01:12:00] every day with the boys. We watched it go into a chrysalis. We watched it hatch. We held it on our hands as its wings were drying. We And I was like, wow, this is so amazing, thank you God for giving us this experience, this intimate experience, right, with something completely outside of ourselves.

I wonder if he's going to give us more because we were willing to look. I look the next day, we have three. Swallowtail caterpillars on our parsley. So we gotta go buy more parsley to put in the ground because they're eating too much of it. And I think it's like, it's, it's finding that mission and it's also being willing to look, being willing to go, being, you know, it does not have to be perfect.

Like, just do it. Find that thing. Do it. It's gonna be harder than you possibly imagined, but it's also going to be So rich, I think that's the thing is like even if, you know, even if Fond shut its doors, like let's say, you know, something catastrophic, two weeks we shut our doors, like we will still be [01:13:00] grateful and we tell this to people in our small group who are starting a business, people are going, we are still grateful that we did this.

We still love that we've had every day the opportunity to do this, even on the hard days. Yeah, I think having that want and that mission, your heart really being in it. Is so huge because those hard days are probably 90 percent of the days or like 80 percent of the days it's still fun, but you're just you're solving problems that take a long time to to figure out yeah, and um Yeah, I think just being able to navigate those situations and still have that want and that joy of what you're doing is so powerful Um, yeah, so we we really appreciate you coming on and sharing.

Yeah. Thanks guys. That's great. This is so much fun I I really hope we get to do a uh Part three with you and Isaac as well. Yeah, that would be so cool. We'll get him outta the show. That'll get him on here next time. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And we'll, we'll obviously link to all your stuff in the show notes.

So obviously incredible bone broth. We've got the beef tallow. How many di? So there's the unflavored beef tallow, there's the chili, and then there's the rosemary and the [01:14:00] turmeric. So we have one, we have four tallow flavors, and then we have one Puran unflavored for, you know, the diehards or people who even wanna bake with it.

And then we've got the turmeric, the chili, and the rosemary. For those that like to, you know, play a little bit. We're gonna be, we're gonna be cooking with it so much, too. I'm excited. And I think it's just such a cool thing to, like, because now Harry and I, we know so many awesome founders that have products.

Like, just the feeling of being able to, like, stack your pantry with products of people that you actually know is such a cool thing. Or even like the clothing that you, like, almost like you have this whole, like, based economy of just, like, cool brands that you, I don't know, I think it's just a cool thing.

Same. So we appreciate you so much. Oh gosh. Thanks guys for having me on. It was awesome.