The Meat Mafia Podcast

what's happening buddy? How much guys? How's it going? Good man. Good. We didn't know that. Uh, a LinkedIn dmm we'd have you on the podcast a week later. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'd heard about you guys like in all good things kind of from. , uh, rumbling from the right people in town, you know? Mm-hmm. , which was kind of fun.

So it was nice to hear. Yeah. We had Devin on, uh, February, yeah. Of March. And we had a great episode with him. So it's great to have on the actual founder of Promix too and get both of you guys on. Yeah. Yeah. Devon's a epic human and, um, we're doing a lot of cool, cool shit together, so, yeah. It's, it's good vibe.

You met him up in New York? Yeah. Um, I've been in New York for 10 years and had a gym up there for 10 years and, uh, We'd known each other through kind of the fitness world and then, um, you know, you, you kind of just, New York's a relatively small place in terms of the fitness community, especially if you're kind of like on the same wavelength.

And so him and I just kind of kept having friends in common and then, um, it's kind of ended up linking up and we just vibed really well. Like he grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. I grew up in Gainesville, Florida and was around farming and, um, we just had the same kind of mindset around. Nutrition and training and general like lifestyle.

Yeah, and you're interesting because you have a you're a was he's a registered dietitian And you have a degree in exercise physiology to yeah prior to starting pro mix you do that at University of Florida Yeah, and ran track to yeah Yeah, I got good at like time efficiency. I think like you guys You know, you guys play baseball, you just kind of like, I don't know, you do fall asleep in classes.

You're like playing a sport, but like you learn how to like, like organize your schedule. And that's almost one of the best things I've learned was just like. time management and like prioritization and like, how do I get through this and how do I make time for this? And, uh, so yeah, did a undergrad grad degrees in exercise, phys and kinesiology.

And during my master's degree, um, I had a professor who was named Dr. Scott powers and he's like, literally wrote the book on physiology. I'm like, awesome dude. He used to be at the Gatorade sports science Institute before Gatorade was kind of like, What it is now like, you know, it's been acquired over the years, but I think it's Quaker and now PepsiCo But you know that for a long time they were doing like they still do like real testing on athletes But that used to be like a bigger part of what they did Yeah, so he was there doing a lot of stuff and I was inspired by him and you know My goal was always kind of like it came from my personal want of being the best runner I could be and learning all the physiology and nutrition behind that.

And, uh, talking to him, it was like, well, if you go a PhD route, you're just gonna be writing grant papers and studying, you know, diabetes and, uh, stroke and stuff like that. And so he's like, you probably don't want to do that. So during my master's, I got a second bachelor's at the same time in food science, human nutrition, and then I was able to tailor that to be really like food, food science focused and, uh, basically like product kind of, you know, Florida has a big, like.

Dairy program and orange juice and everything down there. So I got kind of in the mix of stuff. And then after that got my registered dietitian license here. Because you have to basically, sorry, is a tangent. . No, it's good. Somewhat interesting. Uh, you have to do kind of residencies, basically like work in different hospital settings and that gives you like a very clear understanding, like even as a dietician, you know, People who are kind of like in the system are even telling you this stuff is outdated.

We understand that please learn it for the test you know like and it still hasn't changed much and like you are literally in class and like Legit like a dairy lobby comes in which you know dairy is fine, but like the dairy lobby is a different story and you know like You know, uh, your events are sponsored by Coke and Pepsi and like all that kind of stuff.

So it's like, it's obviously, you know, influenced, um, and, uh, and did rotations in the hospitals and things. You have to do different specializations. But I got with this one alternative medicine clinic in Dunwoody, Georgia, which is right outside Atlanta. And I was there and I found really cool RD there and like a kind of a naturopath chef and everything.

And I was still running a ton after college, I got recruited into USA triathlon. did that program for a while, and that was just like more and more and more training. It's just absurd. Um, get really good at exercising. That's basically what triathlon is. Like, who's a better exerciser? Um, and, uh, that's not, yeah, I didn't enjoy that.

Um, but I started to talk with this lady who was like preparing meals and stuff, and they were working with a lot of like the Atlanta Braves baseball players and things like that. Um, and they were doing, you know, uh, hyperbaric chambers and, Cryo and IV drips and all this is like 15 years ago So like really on it and they had a really cool hybrid model of MDs Indy's naturopath like Dietitians, so they were like making all these meals in house and everything and This lady ended up being this name named lupa.

I re and the first business I did really was help her take this Raw sprouted buckwheat and these are like literally like 15 years ago. So like Way before the wave of paleo or anything all paleo all raw Buckwheat's actually like if you're gonna eat a grain and it's sprouted and raw like that's a yeah a certain consideration And I helped her commercialize that and get into Whole Foods still around as a brand Well, and her daughter now runs it and they have grown like into like a very large kombucha company, which is cool But she was a one that taught me a lot a ton about nutrition and was it very much on you guys probably heard of Weston A price.

Yeah, that's who like you always got to give shout out to yeah I was like, yeah, so beyond so like reading that book like changed my whole And, you know, throughout college, um, I had tried all kinds of different nutrition diets because I want to try myself, you know, and the whole school for me was understanding where the food comes, comes from, if it's processed or anything, how that works once it gets in your body and then how it functions in your body basically.

So that was like. The, you know, food science side, the physiology side and all that, you can kind of like put that whole chain together, which is kind of cool. Yeah. Um, but anyway, Lupo, like her really short personal story was like, she was, you know, super into the raw vegan stuff, lived in Jamaica, lives on her own farm, grew everything like the perfect vegan diet to a T, you know, like, and like really, really doing everything.

hours a day preparing meals, you know, that whole thing. And she had, you know, guys helping on the farm and stuff who would just like eat, you know, jerk chicken and fish and like all that kind of stuff. And she was just like, why are these guys like running circles around me? And I'm doing the perfect diet.

And then, so she started to eat meat and things like that. And, you know, of course, then she kind of got into the whole Weston A. Price thing and, like, changed her whole health and fixed, uh, she had Hashimoto's disease and fixed that through Iodine and all that kind of stuff. But, seeing her journey and then, like, applying it to myself and going from, you know, in college when I was around, I was like 140 pounds.

And then once I started lifting, no lie, just from lifting, uh, again, and this is legit like 45 pounds in like six to eight months and didn't really put on much body fat. And that's just, you know, if you're underweight, you can gain weight easily. And it's certainly underweight when I was running a lot, but.

Yeah, just doing compound lifts and like eating a ton of fat and starting to get enough protein and stuff like can change your whole Life so and that changed my whole energy levels and like everything like that So were you cutting back on running when you were putting that weight on was it just mostly for them?

No, like it's like hard to like if someone's really into running and I was really into running It's like a hard like mental shift. So you're just like that's what I do, right? Like it's just like a weird thing so it took a while but one of my partner in the gym this guy named Ryan Hopkins who's like Definitely still the best trainer anywhere period He's down in Florida now, but he I'd see him in the gym.

He's like do you like why are you still right? Trying to like get your deadlift heavier and like squat heavy and all that and he's like this like ultra counterproductive and I just was like, you know stubborn with it and But then once I started tapering my running it was like unbelievable, you know But and then I got more into kind of finding the right balance for like what I like to do with with Ryan What do you think it is about him that makes him like the best trainer in the country?

Uh, some of my dad told me like the dad was, I would say he's smarter than I am. Um, but he realized it's important to kind of realize how smart you are in a certain area and you can either kind of like outkick your coverage and kind of always be like, but Ryan, you know, as far as like, I don't think most people think you have to have brilliance to be a great trainer, but Ryan's like dumb, smart, like he could be like a top.

His dad was like a top, top lawyer, so he's got that kind of mind. And if you apply that to training, you can just fucking run circles around people. Um, there's a, uh, physical therapist in town named Mark that I saw the other day. Same kind of thing. Like he was like, you know, MD undergrad, like trained all that kind of stuff.

And like, if you can take that kind of mind and apply it to what your interest is, you can really do amazing stuff in the field. And the fact that he, you know. Was and is a great athlete and then just you know Just put the hours in like training really is like a when I started training back in college.

I Didn't yeah, I couldn't see things and then once you just Train and train and train and train. You just can just see like how people are sitting and how people are walking and see what's going on. Right. Does it surprise you as an athlete with this education and all the different like the RD, the Kinesiology, it's like, does this surprise you how athletes actually fuel themselves with food?

From my perspective, it seems like a lot of athletes just either are really well coached and they have someone who's just giving them a program Or they like don't have that and they're missing the mark completely. Yeah, um, yeah, I think like it is kind of on the the spectrum of things usually it's it's a bit like I mean my What we were talking about earlier like my whole view on stuff is it's usually over complicated mm hmm and Unless you are Legitimately in the Olympics, you know a couple weeks out or day of it's not gonna matter and it's like almost counterproductive to like obsess over it so I think like Yeah, you either have athletes that, um, are just really, really gifted and can kind of do whatever.

And then you have people who are like over indexed on like trying to measure all their macros and whatever. So um, most of this stuff I think is kind of usually not great information in from like the coaches or different things. And like, you know, most of the RDs I talked to, like, I have a few that I think are fantastic, but most of them are kind of just following kind of the, whatever the dogma is that they're taught in school and there's not really much thought into it because it's not ever been applied like a thing that I found helpful from, and you guys would know if like with running or even changing kind of how you eat or fast, like you actually start to get in tune with your body.

Definitely. Like if you weren't an athlete and never really push yourself really, really hard, you don't actually know like what, how you're feeling and like what your body needs. Like if you actually go, I think like, Most people could experience that they went for like a long hike. Most people can go for a walk.

If you go hike for a really long time, you're not like, I don't know, you're not looking to eat like gummy bears or something. You're like, dude, I need it like, like a steak. I need something like your body will start to crave certain things. And that's kind of like where you start to tap into like being aware of stuff.

Like growing up, I definitely, you know, ate like what are my parents fed me? You know, it was like I had a glass of milk. And a glass of orange juice every day for breakfast and cereal I felt like shit like every day I'd like you just don't know any different. Yeah, you know, you just like that's how I feel Yeah, I think a lot of people go through it like that and they're still doing it, you know Yeah, if you so say you have like a client that's coming to you.

They're starting to train. They're starting to feel good But they just haven't made that next step in the nutritional journey and but they want to you know, like hey Albert What are like the big points that I should be thinking about with nutrition? Like are you thinking prioritizing protein some of the Western a price stuff?

Like what are like the big things you're trying to drill their head just to get them on the right track. Yeah Um, it's definitely, you know, obviously a client specific and it ranges like, because people kind of have different issues, like they're either, um, there's like one aspect of like, uh, misalignment of what's actually occurring during your day.

Like it's somebody will be like continually not kind of hitting maybe their body composition goals or something. And it's like, I mean, I literally don't eat during the day. And then you kind of like ask again, like, well, do you have any snacks during the day? Well, I have like a bag of nuts at my desk and I'll eat that.

But like, you know, that's, I'll have a couple of handfuls of nuts. I'm like, okay. Like that could be potentially 800 calories, not counting towards what we're doing. And so like, I think like asking people and getting a framework of like, you know, a lot of people are just kind of unconscious in their eating, I guess.

Um, especially if you're someone who snacks. And especially if you're on a screen, and so that means almost the vast majority of people are doing both of those things, um, I think, um, so when I talked to them, like the, the through line that I found, which was a big part of kind of like the stuff that I do now is, um, protein really does solve a lot of people's problems, like it's kind of now, uh, I think I start to hear it more, but like years ago, I, in the combination of kind of like anecdotally, Um, reading, uh, scientific papers and different things like that, talking to smart professors and things.

It was like hemoglobin A1C and how, you know, that's a marker for how well your blood sugar is managed over a period of time. It's kind of the really like biggest marker that you should kind of care about if you're thinking about longevity or like health or anything like that. And, you know, the, the biggest factors that affect that are really, um, You know like stress and things but like diet and like lifestyle slash kind of physical activity and so like physical activity, you know Anything helps walking lifting weights high intensity, whatever it's gonna help But then on the nutrition side like I always broke it down to protein fat and fiber are three things that are gonna like Help modulate your blood sugar And so, if there's someone who's on a very basic level and I'm talking to them about trying to eat healthier, I try to just talk about those three things.

And protein is usually like the friendliest one for people to digest, because like most people like protein. They have a very huge, like, again, kind of like me quitting or reducing running. It was just like, I can't break that frame of like, Wait, I can eat like more than like four ounces of meat or something like that, right?

Yes, like you can definitely eat more than that and like yeah Well, does it gonna do anything like yes and like you can eat a lot more than that and it's gonna be okay And like so that's hard to break people up because it's been ingrained for so long you know a size of a deck of cards should fit in the palm of your hand like Forever you heard that and seen food pyramids and been taught that in school and everything like that.

So getting people wrapped around Like the proper portions of things because people kind of try to eat the right things But like, you know, if you go to they're eating healthy and they're going to sweet green or something It's like what's like the macro kind of breakdown or like and I'm not even get too in the weeds about macros and numbers I don't really like to measure people I like to just try to more teach like parameters and keep it so people aren't obsessing about the numbers but like You know, look at how they're doing it.

And then, like for me, from the business side, you gotta understand it's all about like incentives and stuff. And it's like, are they incentivized to like give you a lot of protein? That's definitely the most expensive ingredient. And so like they're going to manufacture everything they can around like getting you to buy like the other like one liner things that I've developed over the years are like, uh, you know, the favorite ingredients that people are like.

If I can sell water or, or air mm-hmm. Or sugar. Those are like magic for Yeah. People in food because it's fucking cheap, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like really cheap . Yeah. Like drop 50. Mm-hmm. cool. You know, like amazing, like whipped yogurt, amazing. Like Right. Stuff like that, you know, uh, the, you guys before your time, but like maybe early on, like the a hundred calorie mini like Oreo packs and stuff, like anytime you can sell like lower fat stuff, you're basically just like creating more value for.

And that's where I think a lot of the dietary stuff is driven from is like they're incentivized to increase their profit margin. And the way you're going to do that is pull out protein and fat, which are expensive, be able to reuse those and other, uh, ingredient or other products and different things like that.

So you've like basically taken something that maybe say there's a 10 input. You've now, like, reduced your costs down and been able to, like, allocate that cost to all these different products that you can then, like, upsell or, like, supplement back in in different formats and stuff, which is crazy. Right.

The idea of cost optimization in food is so scary because it's, like, the cheaper the food gets on a dollar basis is definitely related to the cheapness of the actual nutritional quality as well. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I think, like, it's really, it's tough to, Eat out because that's always the incentive, you know?

Yeah. And you know, this being from New York and you too with Boston, it's like people go crazy for sweet green in these huge metropolitan cities. Like when I worked downtown in New York, it's like the line would literally be like a 30 minute line and you're getting like four cups of spinach. It's just like the dressing is laced with seed oil.

And maybe you get a little bit of chicken, like two ounces of chicken max, and my co workers are doing this thinking they're healthy, and then they're starving two hours later, and they're getting like the Cheez Its from like the convenience store right down the hall or something like that. Yeah, because you are starving, and like, it's counter, it's counter, uh, yeah.

And it's, there's this whole thing too around like, You know, I learned this again, like kind of just trying different stuff for myself because I used to eat giant salads because that's what I was told to do, you know, from my dietician in school and like all that kind of stuff and like you, um, you know, like the way satiety works, like it's a, uh, main factor is like a volume game and so you're training your stomach when you eat voluminous foods, like if you think about when you think about nutrient dense, you should also just realize that it's Literally, literally dense, like it's fat and protein, like, you know, you can have a thousand calories of fat and like this size, you know, and so, but a thousand calories of spinach, you could literally fill up the entire room, you know, and so like you're training your body to like, it's basically literally expanding your stomach and that's the only time you feel satiety factor is that you've expanded to that same amount.

And obviously that carries over. So like if you're someone who's like eating healthy and you have the sweet green and you fill your stomach up with a bunch of spinach that you're probably not going to digest anyway, maybe it gives you kidney stones or something later down the road, like you're then going to be starving later.

And then you're not going to be satisfied with like a pint of ice cream. Like you're just gonna, you're gonna need to fill that same amount. Totally. And so I think that's really helpful too for people to like, I'm not actually a huge proponent of, which is probably not sparring you guys, of fiber. Even though that's still kind of like for most people a healthy kind of halo thing.

Yeah. But like, when I said like, I usually say protein, fat, and fiber for people because that's still like approachable. Like you can't also, you have to meet people where they are. Yeah. So if I'm just like, you know, go super ham on them, they're just gonna be like, what the fuck? Yeah. So like, yeah, I, you know, I throw in the like, Uh, you know, you kind of try to work in, uh, yeah, you can have totally like six ounces meat, you know, eight ounces or something like butter on it.

I don't know. Um, and like really like slow, but like, um, yeah, like that, I, I try to work that angle too of like, I'm trying to get people to eat smaller, more dense meals cause that's going to carry over because very vehemently, at least for, I see this more in men, but like definitely shouldn't be eating constantly.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, and most people think you should, you know, it's just how we've been taught. Yeah. We were laughing today because, like, there's something, we were talking about the idea of spending like ten. To 15 on a steak and just have that one steak can basically last you for like the majority of your like waking hours Like you'll feel fully satiated and especially if you're not like training like a man Like that will really though that 15 will last you the entire day for the most part.

Yeah Yeah, and that's obviously tough with like people try to They try to bucket it with like, well, it's expensive or, you know, that's not like, you know, it's not kind of like an equal opportunity thing for a lot of people. And there is truly like an education factor, but like, it's a low bar. Yeah. Like to buy, like you said, not even a steak, you can buy two pounds of, Good quality ground beef for that much you're good probably for if you're not training again like a crazy bird That could be two days of food.

Oh, yeah, totally and like do you need much more than that? Not really So it's like and that I think gets back to like the the athlete thing or just being able to push yourself You've never even pushed yourself You don't even know like what that kind of comfort level is and it's not like you have to you know If I said, you know, all you got to eat today is a pound and a half of steak or something You'd be like that sounds reasonable.

Like it's not like you've been pushing yourself It's just you have to be able to break that frame in your head that you've been conditioned to not enough that I need snacks and I need variety. Variety is a big thing I think about too. Like the Western Enterprise stuff was kind of, you know, touches on that, but it's like, it's wild the amount of variety we have.

And that's the same kind of overstimulus that we experience in all areas, social media and everything is the same with food. You're like, that's new and novel. Let me try that. And it's like, yeah, you know, I've definitely found that I, Enjoy and it's not like I feel like I limit myself. I eat, you know what I want.

Um, there's not a bunch of things I want to try all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Like after you try it once, it's cool to try stuff once, but you're like, nah, I like daily life. I'm like, I'm good. I got like four or five things I really like. You figure out what your maintenance foods are. And even with a steak, it's like.

Just take a steak. I could prepare that thing 15 different ways that taste very different every single time and they're all delicious, too. Even just the different types of salt, seasonings, put blue cheese on this, don't put it on that time. You can create that variety just with one food group, too. Um, has there anything been compelling in your research on the topic of protein?

Like, have you, have you, did you find in your research that animal proteins are just more bioavailable? They're, you know, they're more nutrient dense than some of the plant protein sources that are out there too. Yeah. Um, I don't know. I think like the, the main stuff that I've found, um, recently I, I talked to because the dietitian and my background, like.

CSCS training I end up I have a lot of reporters kind of hit me so I keep in touch with like What's going on and like the mainstream like what are people talking about and stuff and they're still talking about you know like? Complementary proteins with plants and like rice and beans yeah, you know that's all well and good But like I think that that's like one aspect of it is like protein again Like you guys said unless you are someone who's training twice a day The timing is not overly important.

I think it is important, like one, one aspect of all that stuff is realizing where you're at in kind of your health. And back to what I said about blood sugar control, the earlier you are in your journey, the less well, You're able to control your blood sugar and more you need kind of like crutches or like just help like yeah Yeah, you know take away the stigma of it But like for most people after they work out they're pretty fucking hungry because their blood sugar is like in the tank if you train Every day, you're kind of like yeah, yeah, and like Unless you're gonna train again that day like you can be like yeah, I got a run to work And then I'll eat eventually it'll be fine, and it's not really gonna change your day But like for a lot of people they do need to have some kind of protein or carbs or fruit whatever after they work out Or even before they train because like they got a kind of like buffer their body against that big drop in blood sugar They're gonna experience and that leads into them You know, kind of over indexing on like some sports food later and like you kind of have to give yourself some something like a protein to bring your blood sugar back up so you're not like walking around like a crazy person, you know, hungry, but like what you said, like plant proteins and animal proteins, like the big thing I think about this is all a little bit tied together, so I kind of go off topic, but like I always think about, I think you've had people on the talk about this stuff, but like, and this is, I'll try to simplify it.

Yeah. Because I find that easy for people to digest literally and figuratively is like like fruit like most fruits meant to be eaten because you're supposed to spread the seeds most plants don't like that so like in general like there's not that many plants you should be eating if you are eating they probably are like younger plants or sprouted or like they're bred a certain way or they're prepared in a certain way or they're cooked or they're broken down and kind of the same with like proteins like We're meant to eat animals.

We can eat, absorb, and assimilate animal protein very well. Most plant proteins, like, it has to be prepared in a certain way for it to be assimilated. You know, in my world of, like, protein powders and things, like, I always, same way that I talk to people about nutrition, I want to meet people exactly where they are and give them, and know, like, my goal, I love, uh, training and getting people to work out.

Can't get everyone to work out. Everyone has to eat. And that's why I ended up in nutrition doing that. Because I was like, I have a gym, but I can't even affect the people I really want to affect because I can't get them in the gym. But they're being sold to by some big company, some crap, and they're going to say, Well, I need a pre workout.

Do you? Maybe. But, and a lot of people do. And it's also, again, like that motivation factor. Like you guys are probably... I'm just gonna work out 'cause it's fucking Tuesday . Yeah. That's what I do on Tuesday. Yeah. Uh, but a lot of people need something. They need, they need a motivation, they need extra boost from the community or whatever it is to get them in the gym and to give them something knowing that they are gonna take something.

I wanna give them a better option. And that's kind of like with like animal proteins or plant proteins. Like I'm gonna get, my goal is again, like, I think protein can solve a lot of problems for people. Um, lean muscle, blood sugar, recovery, uh, hormones, everything like that. Mm-hmm. If I can just get them, wherever they're at, to meet them there and give them the best option of what's available.

It's still, um, something that's somewhat palatable. Yes. Like, you can't feed people like... Raw liver, they're just not gonna, they're not gonna be down with that. Yeah. Yeah. You've mentioned this idea of over indexing a few times like the first time we met and I think it's, it's like, it's such a great take because so many people are just like, staring through this very narrow lens of nutrition and trying to like, look at every single molecule that's going into their body and like, that's like, almost equally as unhealthy as the person who's not.

Doing not like getting started. So that idea of just like finding the middle ground and being able to tell the message is really powerful for us And I feel like ProMix is like a perfect example of that like a product that kind of like simplifies things like hey This is where you can start. So I'd love to hear like the background story of ProMix and how that whole Company came to be.

Yeah Um, yeah, the simple thing is like one context note on that. Like I, I don't, I think I'm in good shape. People look at me and they're like, you're in really good shape. Um, they think I spent a lot of time in the gym. I'll work out once a day. It's usually for less than an hour because I'm like right in between stuff.

I have a cold beers every day. I usually have a pizza every day, ate a lot of meat and drink a lot of water. And that's about it. It's every day. Yeah. Nice. And it's like, I can't eat, uh, tomatoes, like, uh, mostly the nightshades kind of give me like reflux and stuff. So I don't really garlic or onions or, uh, tomatoes, eggplants, that type of stuff messes with my stomach.

Um, I definitely hurt my stomach a lot from running. Like you can really give yourself trouble, uh, from like goose or just from running. Yeah. Like pushing yourself really, really hard when you're dehydrated and like, you know, that kind of thing. Plus eating. You know, I was like, my coaches had cliff bars all day, every day for me and that, like, I was like, God, you know, I guess I just have to shit every time I fucking run.

But like, no, you're just eating stuff that like your body's not enjoying. So it took a long time. I do think I like kind of healed my gut over time and I kind of went on a diet that was like very high fat, um, kind of like just cut out all fiber and like I found like a good balance. But yeah, like, you know, a good quality pizza is just cheese.

Like I get it just the white pizzas. So it's like cheese and bread. And I like the kind of more neapolitan. Neapolitan style with like extra cheese, so it's like A lot of cheese, a little bit of bread and like, yeah, I like that, you know, and it works for me. And, um, so really just like, there doesn't have to be a lot of preciousness around because I think people look at somebody in shape and they're like, wow, you must really have it dialed in.

And I'm like, I figured out what works. And if you're like 80, 20 with stuff, you're going to be all right. And at the day, it's kind of like, do I get enough protein, enough fat? Get enough sleep, it kind of works out. Yeah. Your body's built to stay alive. , definitely. Um, but with Promix, like that came in from a personal need.

It was like, I grew up, um, again, like I said, like kind of eating what was fed to me, which was not always the best. My parents thought it was great, but it was like not always the best. Um, but my mom, you know, she cooked things. We, we had a garden, she would like. You know, try to do things like out of the package, you know, so like fresh, you know, fruits and vegetables and like good meats from a butcher and all that kind of stuff.

Um, and so I had this idea. We used to go to the farmer's market all the time. And so I like understood. I had a framework around like a farmer's market. Like, where did that come from? Like, how was it grown? Like. Okay, you have eggs like what are the chickens like what are they eating where you know how much space they have like so that kind of framework and tying it to Nutritional products or supplements was really my goal and in college It was really neat.

So I grew up a couple blocks down from dr. Cade. I had to write a paper in high school and I just decided to write it about Dr. Kade. So I kind of wrote that whole story about him making Gatorade and how all that came to be. And that was very much like in the lab, you know, the short story of it was they were analyzing sweat.

They convinced the football coach at Ford at the time to let them try to give the players what they called, you know, just like a drink, but they ended up calling it Gatorade. And it was like terrible tasting. And that was, that started to be where it switched from science to food science. They're like, we know exactly what you guys need to have.

Here's a bunch of fucking salt. People are like, this tastes terrible, like literally it's going to make, I'm going to throw up. And so they're like, okay, we need to like flavor it and sweeten it and do all that kind of thing. So like, that's where like that, there wasn't really food science that much before then there was like NASA and the space program and stuff, but like, that's where it started to be like, all right, cool.

There's like a physiological driver for this, but then we have to make it palatable. And then that obviously is like expanded into different things. So. I used to go to a gym in Gainesville, this guy named Joe Cerulli, um, and I would always work out there. Joe, like literally it's one of the most successful gyms in the nation, which is crazy in Gainesville.

He's got like three locations. He runs the town guy. Uh, he should have him on. He's like, he came down, I think he's still alive. Uh, came down from New York with like 40, slept in the car, like convinced this guy to let him like. You know, sweep his gym floor, eventually like became manager, eventually bought the gym, like unbelievable story.

Wow. Awesome dude, like one of the greatest people ever. So I was inspired by him, but I would drink these like go drinks, which was like a spinoff of Gatorade. So there's all these like sub... Gatorade things. I was always around and it was like this like milk protein drink and it was awesome, you know, yeah, and I got to Florida and there's a bunch of products that have come out in the last couple years that were have been around for 15 years with Gatorade.

They had Gator lights, you know, I could think about we have like, you know, we have an electrolyte There's element. There's all these different brands out there and like they had Gator lights back then That was you know, sodium potassium magnesium like they had it and we would put it in our waters and they had protein bars The protein bars we make are like fashioned after like this element that they had Um, they had Torque.

They had like these like drinks that were like all carbs, you know, like cool, just stuff. So I was like, wow, this is so cool. Like, but I would drink this stuff and I was literally toting around. I was, you know, at Florida, we would have practice at 2 p. m. You know, you guys can relate. Like why is practice at 2 p.

m. seems like a very bad time for breakfast. Terrible time. Yeah. Uh, okay. Four hours. But we're here. Yeah. Yeah. This is great. Um, so I carry around a jug of Gatorade the entire day. And I would like, I would just start having headaches and all this stuff and I was just like just drinking Gatorade and probably 40% of my calories were just like bars and shakes and all kinds of stuff and I was like, I feel pretty bad.

And so it came down to that, like I just was having gastrointestinal issues and headaches and I was like, I'm not used to that. And so, you know, when I was learning stuff in school, I got more interested and I was like, I want to, you know, make my own bars and make my own protein. So I just really went down that rabbit hole and like going through the food science side, you get, you start to see kind of behind.

The curtain a bit about like you understand that it is there's a whole industry behind food, you know There's a inputs to all those foods, you know, like There's ingredients that go into each of those and there's places those ingredients are grown and you can trace that all the way back to a farm, you know, and so like, that's basically where ProMix came to be.

It was like, it was before D2C was a thing or that was a term, um, so 2011 was really like when I started doing something and there was an organic coffee company in town called Sweetwater. It's still around and a lady named Tina that I think is still there and she helped me a lot and, uh, I just went in one day and was like, Hey, can I, uh, like to package protein?

And, uh, like, okay. Yeah. And so, like, I came back when the manager was there and he was like, yeah, uh, Yeah, like, can I do this at night? And he's like, sure. So I would go, I set up, called like the USDA, set up my own certified organic handling facility and started packing protein on a coffee machine line and, uh, started selling protein.

And it came to be one of our coaches there, um, He was a Olympic sprint coach, amazing guy, and he had, uh, this guy named Justin Taylor, who's a gold medalist. He had Justin Gatlin, who's a silver medalist, and I was doing nutrition for them. I was a dietitian, and he was like, you're a dietitian, the other dietitian sucks.

Uh, you actually kind of know what you're doing. So, yeah, I talked to him, and I was just like, Well, I wanted to make them products that they liked and like, you know, they, they didn't really care that much, but I was like, well, Gatorade's got all this crap in it and you shouldn't drink that. So I made like, I, we still have a product doesn't do that great, but it was like an organic version of Gatorade, you know, and it was like, I was really passionate about that.

Um, but having like clean products where I could be like, I know where all the ingredients come from. I made this product. It's formulated in a way that I believe is as physiologically sound as I can make it. And it doesn't taste like crap. That was kind of my parameters. Um, and, you know, the last, you know, business evolved since then and everything, but it's still the same thing.

I still literally just like talk to Devin or talk to an athlete and they go, you know, like, like a product with, uh, Baobab, uh, called Deeploat. And that was, came from Devin going to Africa. He went there, he, uh, was working with this tribe. He was building, uh, he was climbing Kilimanjaro and he built like a water, uh, well for them.

And he's like, I was, I was climbing a lot and I got tired and like they gave me this pod and it was Baobab. It's awesome. We got to do something with it. And we started talking about it and it was like really cool ingredient. And it's a super high vitamin C. It's got prebiotic fibers. It's got potassium in it and all this stuff.

And so we wanted to make a drink around that. And that's like how products come to be. It's not like a, it's really still just like solving needs that we see or like, you know, we see people again, like people are interested in something. I just want them if they're going to do it and they want to try to help their health.

I want to try to give them a good. Alternative or like a good option in that route, right? People are trying to figure out things for their gut and I want them. All right, cool You're like making an effort to invest in your health Like, you know, do I want you to have an I'd rather have you have your own kefir grains and raw goat milk at home Sure.

Yeah, like it's not that's not gonna happen for most people and so like let's give them something That's like I feel good about that's gonna meet them where they need to be It's an amazing bridge product and I want the listener to understand how unconventional and incredible Your path to starting pro mix is because so many people just go the path of like Copacker like there's copackers behind every supplement brand essentially that you see and it's like they do the formulation for you and a lot Of these brands it's like slap a label on put bags and they just ship it out of there So you your superpowers like you were super hands on in the beginning you were doing the formulation you didn't outsource it to a copacker and I think now in this DTC landscape people would be like Why is your time best spent there?

But I feel like it's kind of like your superpower in a sense where it's like, you know All the logistics all the ingredients all the formulation. It's like you could speak that stuff better than anyone. Yeah Yeah, I was uh, I could have made a lot more money But I knew what I was earlier on. Yeah earlier on, you know, like I missed the wave as far as that stuff that's like that's the part to like be real about and like laugh about and like Think about um, but yeah, I just I was kind of doing in my own world Like I just thought that's how you do stuff.

Mm hmm. It is kind of how you should do stuff You know, you should like go something from the ground up You know I've read a ton of books and it was always inspired by people who I think you can't really know the business unless you've like You swept the floor and then you did this and like I did the same thing kind of in gyms and uh, yeah You know, it makes it more meaningful.

I definitely wouldn't have stuck with it Like I have you know, it's been 10 plus years if I didn't Really care about it because you guys know like even when you have success like making money like, you know It doesn't really like it doesn't give you any feeling. Yeah, really at a certain point like once you kind of like you're okay It's not like that motivating but yeah with the that that has been what I've been getting more focused on is Getting my more of my time back to just making products because it is like unique and different I didn't realize how unique and different It kind of was in the space, but, um, yeah, like understanding each part of the business made a lot of differences where it helped our business a lot as far as like, I can kind of call bullshit on people to like where a lot of people are like, well, that's not how we do things.

And I'm like, well, you can do it that way. So we're going to do it that way. And being able to control more of everything that goes into our product, you know, we still have our own warehouse and stuff where we like hold every ingredient, we batch everything like. So there's a high level of, like, selectivity with stuff, which is cool.

Yeah. One of our goals with the show is to have people listen in and be inspired to start their own businesses. So I'm curious if there's anything that you would recommend for someone who's just like sitting here listening to this being like, man, in one day I really wish I could start something that would contribute to the food system and improving it.

Yeah. I think the biggest thing is, um, I, you know, I actually did think a I wanted to be a doctor, I was pre med undergrad. Because I didn't have a frame of reference on what other options were. The most successful people in town were doctors and lawyers. There was some guy that sold widgets. The guy who sold widgets was like a huge vendor for Apple.

And I was always like, God, that guy looks like he has a lot of fun. I had no idea. But all my parents were like, I don't know what they do. Uh, but otherwise it was just doctors. So it was like, it was really like one, like expose yourself to like what's possible. For me going to New York, I was like. Uh, I would tell actually a ton of people they should be a personal trainer because if you're not like I didn't come from I came from a great family but not like people who are connected like you all know people who are just like Wow, you know your dad's this and this or like, yeah, parents are this and you got just an amazing network day one and like Kind of throughout life or where you went to school or whatever I didn't really have that for it is not necessarily known for that kind of stuff But when your personal training you start talking to people and anyone that's personal training at 10 a.

m Like on a Tuesday, I can kill on it. Yeah, and so like totally They'll tell you about what they do and they're excited about it because they've gotten to a good point in their life and like it Just completely brew my like I just didn't even know how to think like that That was a big thing and it's kind of like nutrition the same thing But just like go into Instances where you can be around people that you're not used to being around and I did that in other parts of my life and I think sports is great for that because you interact with so many different people from different backgrounds you start to understand people but like from like a kind of leveling up or like reaching your goals like Being able to access and be around really successful people.

Like you guys know that from just like the people you associate with really shapes like who you are and where you go in life. But for most people being in service to someone like a training where you can access that was that to me was huge. I mean, you just talk to people who. They get paid multiple thousands of dollars an hour to talk to people, you know, if they're a lawyer or an advisor or whomever, and they're talking to you for an hour like four times a week.

Yeah. That's unbelievable. Yeah, and you're the one providing the service, too. Yeah. So you're giving to them. An amazing dynamic. Yeah. They really appreciate what I'm saying, and I'm just like a fucking, anything they're saying, I'm so into it. Right. Yeah. That was huge. And then the other thing, really, I did sit down and think about was, uh, do, choose,

do what you do in your free time. As your like main thing, so I was literally I would if I traveled or anywhere back when Whole Foods was like awesome Yeah, it's not awesome anymore. But when it was awesome, yeah, I would go in I would go to every Whole Foods because each one was different, you know Like where you were Austin or Boston or yeah, wherever and there had completely different regional brands and local brands all this stuff I would go and look at every single row and then flip over every single label and look at all the packaging and like that's What I did for fun Yeah, and so like I just did what I really like I was literally looking at that stuff for fun Or I would just look at any kind of nutrition company that's out there and like look at all the power bars I'm like look at like all these brands that were around years and years ago And just I was like super into that stuff, so you got to pick something that like what do you do like?

When you're just poking around on your phone nowadays, you know, like, what are you looking at? You should do that. Yeah. Do you mind? Am I allowed to bring up your new project that you're working on? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So can I say the company by name? So Dose, the towel chip company, Harry's good buddy Mills, who I've gotten to know, he sent Harry the deck and he was like, Harry was like, Hey, you should check this deck out.

This is before we knew you. And I saw that you were listed as the CEO of Dose. And my initial thought was like, that's super interesting that he's a CEO of Promix and he's launching this new brand too. And it kind of leads me into what you just said. When we met you something that you said that really struck a chord with us was like, you're like, I just really enjoy like working and building brands.

And this is my passion. So like I'm more than happy to like take on another brand cause I want to throw my time into it. And I feel like there's this big, um, I think there's a lot of misinformation around like You know, hey, pursuing hobbies outside of your job or like separating those things. But it's like, maybe it's actually possible for your work to also be your passion too.

And I think that's an amazing thing. Yeah, that's definitely it. Um, and like the way the world is connected now, especially with like social media or anything like that, all that stuff is like interlinked, you know, like would I tell anyone to start a gym? Probably not. Yeah. Very bad business. Uh, did that lead to a million connections that have helped me massively throughout my life?

Yes. You know and is the gym was a gym compliment or any pro mix like I would have never met Devin There's somebody like that We never would have worked on stuff we would never had like a shared interest or like shared level of respect for like what we do and like Devin's the same way with like he's got a lot of different things going on.

I never am like Oh, you know, like, Hey, man, I feel like I haven't talked to you. Yeah. It's not like that. Like, it's all like, it's all additive, you know, and it's all like, you're getting out there and you're meeting people and you're talking and it's all like the same message. We're not like, we're never doing anything that's like inauthentic or like counter to like one other thing we're doing.

Like he has an amazing company he's building with Jesse Itzler all day running. Awesome company, awesome brand, good people, and like, totally synergistic with Bromix. Guys like to run, work out all the time, that's literally what they're about. They love nutrition products, love hydration, like we're there.

Um, so yeah, with like Dose, that was again like, Mills and I met through a designer friend that we both worked with. Um, Mills is, you know, visionary, uh, totally interesting dude. Great, like, great person, good, good soul. And like, uh, He can make beautiful content and like, I love to work with people because I really do like the back end office stuff like that was just, I defaulted into, yeah, I don't know, I'll just call up the USDA and set up my own facility and like, I don't know, yeah, that's just like, that just was what came to my head, like kind of like people go too darn too far down the route of like first principles thinking, thinking, but that's kind of what it was.

I was just like, how to start a company, you know, and that kind of thing. So yeah, Dose is like, it's something I'm passionate about from the perspective of, yeah. Um, I've, I've always wanted to not make a company or a brand that was for the 1%. I wanted to try to make something that affects bigger people and like chips is a great market for affecting a ton of people.

And again, it's like meeting people where they're at. And if you can get, if you can start planting that seed and just like poke that a little bit and just kind of like, like again, like break that frame around like what people think and like, Oh, I didn't know you could even have, you know, be fat with.

That's cool. You know, I'm like, yeah, I may just start the whole fucking conversation Totally. Yeah, the gateway drugs and yeah, like buying a quarter cow is not yeah, you're not just gonna jump into the head Yeah, but if you have something that you use on a daily basis that gets you to start thinking differently It's so crazy Like the paradigms that we live in if you aren't testing like stepping out a little bit like week to week month to month It's you really can't break those patterns.

So you do have to have these products or like, you know some sort of Yeah, breakthrough moment I just feel like the product world is a great place to have those where you can like attach a message to a product That's really high quality and just get in the hands of people so they can start to think a little bit differently Yeah, I think like nowadays like if you want to really affect change in the world, it's like You can't really do it in politics.

I don't think. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. That's a tough game. But if you amass, you know, influence via digital means and different things like that, or you get a product out there, like you are like, you're interacting with people like on a daily thing. And like, that's the stuff that, that repetitive nature and like you see it.

A little bit all the time because that's how like, you know, government or anything like that affects you. It's like these little things you see all the time every day. Yeah. So that you can be, you can play that same playbook of like, Oh, you know, like, yeah, let's change your chips. What about like toothpaste?

Yeah. Or like, you know, different things like that and that's fun. I really like that. Yeah, well you must be so excited where it's like ProMix in a lot of ways is your baby. You've been doing it for... over a decade now to take that amazing operating skill set that you've developed over a decade and invest it into a new business.

That must be so exciting. I'm sure you'll learn things from Dose that will apply to ProMix, like new insights, new revelations. Like you must be so pumped about that. Yeah. I mean, and Dose is like, uh, it's kind of like the gym. Like, um, I think it'll be a lot of their business, but like, I mean, you guys, you know, and like, that's like, again, like if you were like, you know, the kind of the traditional thing, like everyone's broken that mold of like, I have one job.

That's what I do. I go to an office. I sit at my desk, like. I'm here for 20 years. That's what I do. It's like, no, like you're kind of, it's all open now. And so like that, that cross pollination of stuff really matters. And especially when you're all kind of on that same like health wave, like you're going to be in the same circles and have the same conversation.

So yeah, like dose is great. Like the dream of, um, I know you guys have your company and you've already got a SKUs out. Dream is like a one SKU company. One SKU. Amazing. So we're going for it. Yeah, it is hard, you know, it is hard because like you, I think you guys have already as, as what you did, which is great, which is like, you have a platform and then you're, you have a message and then you've delivered that message.

Like we were saying through like a product and it's authentic. Yeah. Um, but make sure it remains that platform or like that one SKU can kind of be like on or off switch, you know, and like people will look at your brand, like I'm not buying, um, Coke sells Coke. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. You know, or like, you know, but there's other brands out there like, uh, uh, you had Mark Sisson on.

Absolutely. I didn't. Yeah. You know, and like, I've talked to his son before, Kyle. He's a really awesome dude. He's got that, uh, Poluva. Yeah. Um, but like, yeah, like he built a platform, you know, it's kind of like anything that they made, I knew was of a standard and I trusted it and I would try it. You know, and that's a cool thing to think about when you're thinking about brand and stuff.

Yeah Make it make sure it represents like a bigger kind of picture on stuff. But definitely yeah with dose. It's it's cool It's like it's it's very manageable three ingredients. I like that, you know I'm like, so yeah, you can just plug it into kind of what we do on a daily basis It's not a massive lift and so that allows you to if you can take the operational stuff which can really trip you up and actually focus on like The, you know, the brand about it or like the messaging and the creative around it.

And that's why like somebody like Mills is great. Yeah. Yeah. It's huge. It's like if you were to bet on a team, you, Mills, Sam Moffitt, Miles Snyder. Yeah. I'm trying to think, am I missing anyone that was on the deck? It's like three of you guys have been on the show. It's like, we'll bet on you guys all day long.

Yeah. It's a good group. And that, that matters a lot. You got to do stuff that like. Good people on, um, if you ever, you know, but your gut's good on that stuff too. Like if something's a little bit funny and we have tough conversations, um, you know, we're, and I like that, like Devin and I have the same thing.

We're very push and pull. Yeah. And it's like I'm super, uh, backend, you know, organizational. Mm-hmm. one Zero. Yes. No. Yeah. And Devin's like fucking paint with all the colors Right. On whatever the fuck he's doing. Yeah. And so like that obviously, uh, interacts differently. Yeah. Um, but it's great because you gotta test, you know, you gotta push yourself Totally.

And it makes you know everyone better. So it's, it's a good vibe. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like in today's world, the barriers to start something is so low. 'cause you can start a platform for nothing. Yeah. Like us starting the podcast, it was literally like, Let's do some zoom podcasts and see where this goes.

We did five the first month and then we ramped it up and it obviously takes a certain level of intensity and like intent with what you're trying to do, but The barriers are so low where you can build some momentum on social platforms, meet the right people. And then you can kind of get through that phase one and phase two, you can actually start to like see the vision come together.

But I do feel like that phase one area of starting a business, whether it's like just putting a podcast together and not really expecting much of it, starting a social account. Whatever it is can like kind of break through a lot of the fear based thinking that stops people from starting So, I don't know I just I kick myself a little bit because I'm like and the internet's so powerful and for a long time I was just thinking like like, you know, it's like too hard to start a business or like, you know I my corporate jobs good enough so like, you know just getting complacent in that thinking but there's so many opportunities out there if you just embrace the tech and Actually, just like take the first step.

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's a Definitely a powerful thing like it is There's this guy on YouTube. I don't remember his name you guys He's kind of does like investigative like investigative journalism ish. Mm hmm all good dude. Why dude tall guy left to find him He's like started to blow up. I feel like recently he's like 40 Anyway, like he talked about the things he loves and hates about America One of the things that he was like a negative was just like how risk averse people are here.

It's crazy. It's it's crazy wild Like we have it so good and there's such a like, it's hard to fall really far in America if you're like somewhat trying to show up. Yeah. And like, you know, like you said with the podcast, it's literally just kind of like you just got to show up and like trust it. And I always had that.

I think that helped me a lot. Um, I didn't ever question trying different things. One, you have to realize like Devin would be the same way. Like we just cannot function in like an office. Yeah, I just can't I just can't do it like it's just very nice. Yeah, very difficult guys But yeah different energies, but like I just can't do it.

I'm just like there's something that it like hurts but I have to have autonomy with certain things, but it was um the idea of like I was like I can always go back to Florida for is so good man Like people are finding it out now, but I grew up in Florida. It's like it's easy living, dude Yeah, you do not have to have money down there You got a beach, food's cheap, food's good.

Like, you know, like we talked about earlier, like, on 15 a day, you can eat grass fed beef and anything else you want for the most part. And like, you can do that in Florida all day. And there's a million jobs I can get down there that can give me that lifestyle on the beach. So like, there's not much to lose.

And I think that's like what you said about coming out of corporate stuff. It's just like, have that reference point that like, If this didn't work, like, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? Yeah. Move to Florida. Yeah. That sounds alright. I keep thinking about, uh, when you were saying how that really impactful period for you was when you were personal training all these clients in New York.

And that kind of gave you the self belief of like, if all these other people are doing these incredible things, why not me? Yeah. And our version of that has been the last year doing 210 episodes. And like, All the effort, all the energy, all the money spent in investing in the show. If that was all we got was the self belief, it still would be worth it.

If we didn't do anything else beyond get that one nugget. Yeah, yeah. It's just like seeing it. It's like it starts to happen for you when you're just around it more. And you start to talk to those people. And it just, it seems like they're, you know, kind of like you said, like, well, it seemed like a leap to like leave my job or whatever.

And it's just like. It's right there now like you're around it all the time You're just like I can actually like I'm touching it I can get there and then like you start it starts to happen a little bit and then it just kind of keeps going which Is really fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's super dope. Yeah point Yeah belief is so interesting because like you almost have to trick yourself at the beginning like believe it Yeah Then you can get there so much faster the more and more you start to just like continuously show up for yourself and like put yourself in that space that you are and There was an amazing video that I saw yesterday.

I'll try to link it to the show notes, but it was all around this concept of like before you actually get to where you want to go in the moment right now, you have to be. Whatever that that thing is that you want to be so there's a lot of power in that too when you're taking risk It's like I don't know like so many other people have probably done what you want to do All you have to do is just like try to like embody their their essence and yeah what they do.

Yeah Yeah, just kind of learn. Yeah, I just kind of absorb and take nuggets from stuff. I love like Listen to audiobooks and different things. I've kind of turned through like a bunch of the ones I wanted to hear But it was like, yeah, it's mainly just keep showing up. Yeah working hard at it. Yeah, you know, it'll kind of happen things will happen Yeah, well, I know we're coming up on time, man I feel like this hour flew by probably needed another hour So good excuse to get you back on for part two But what's the best way for people to connect with you if they want to learn more about what you got going on?

Pro mix dose. Yeah, I'm a nutrition comm but yeah, I've heard at pro mix nutrition I read all my emails unless you're right I don't know if you guys see like the I'm like, I have like one day in the future when I have more time, I really just want to spend time like writing little like meme things. It's stupid, but that's what we do.

Quick question, Albert. The number of emails I get like that quick question. I don't know where people are taking this like funnel marketing course, but I get quick question Albert. Literally at least 17 times a day. Yeah. In my inbox every single day for like the last four years. And I'm like, who, who's ClickFunnel?

Or like who's marketing course is teaching these people? Quick question, but it's like, so don't write me that, please. Is it working or not? No, never. I just, every day I wake up, I taking a shit and I just spam times spam the entire, you know, it's, it's all like 24 year olds that have taken like an agency course or something like that and they're trying to pitch you on something.

Yeah. I'm just like, who? Where's this coming from? Long question. Albert . Yeah. But that work better. Yeah. Yeah. Email's good. Um, But yeah, thanks guys. Love it. Cool, man. Thanks for doing this, Albert. See you soon. All right. Yeah. Later.